(01-08-2023, 12:47 PM)plam Wrote:

(01-08-2023, 11:41 AM)Acitta Wrote: You could have taken the #40 GO bus from the airport to Square One and the #25 GO bus from there to Kitchener. Not as good as taking the UP Express to the GO train, but it is wrong to say that there is no transit from Toronto to KW on the weekend.

Airways Transit probably still operates but when I was travelling with 2 big bags and 2 small bags yesterday I used Waterloo Taxi ($130 plus [sigh] tip). The GO combination would have taken 2h15, which is fine in some situations, but I figured that after 24 hours of travel it would be nice to not be on the bus for an extra hour. Taxis should be able to accommodate that amount of stuff. Perhaps a minivan taxi.

(01-08-2023, 01:29 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:

(01-08-2023, 12:47 PM)plam Wrote: Airways Transit probably still operates but when I was travelling with 2 big bags and 2 small bags yesterday I used Waterloo Taxi ($130 plus [sigh] tip). The GO combination would have taken 2h15, which is fine in some situations, but I figured that after 24 hours of travel it would be nice to not be on the bus for an extra hour. Taxis should be able to accommodate that amount of stuff. Perhaps a minivan taxi.

Taxi's do, certainly a minivan, but while it might be legal, I'm not comfortable having a taxi driver drive my toddler up the 401 with no car seat.

As an aside, last time I took a taxi from the airport....before the UP...the driver started operating all their electronic equipment in the middle of the 427....and while I would have liked to have gotten out of the vehicle immediately I figured a distracted driver was better than standing in the middle of a 12 lane expressway. I did not tip.

(01-08-2023, 05:58 PM)plam Wrote:

(01-08-2023, 01:29 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Taxi's do, certainly a minivan, but while it might be legal, I'm not comfortable having a taxi driver drive my toddler up the 401 with no car seat.

As an aside, last time I took a taxi from the airport....before the UP...the driver started operating all their electronic equipment in the middle of the 427....and while I would have liked to have gotten out of the vehicle immediately I figured a distracted driver was better than standing in the middle of a 12 lane expressway. I did not tip.

I see that taxi drivers are exempt from the car-seat law, though at least Aeroport Taxi does provide them. The whole car seat thing makes cars more complicated, though maybe cars should be complicated in general. It sort of is unfortunate in that it makes non-owned cars in particular more complicated.

(01-08-2023, 05:58 PM)plam Wrote:

(01-08-2023, 01:29 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Taxi's do, certainly a minivan, but while it might be legal, I'm not comfortable having a taxi driver drive my toddler up the 401 with no car seat.

As an aside, last time I took a taxi from the airport....before the UP...the driver started operating all their electronic equipment in the middle of the 427....and while I would have liked to have gotten out of the vehicle immediately I figured a distracted driver was better than standing in the middle of a 12 lane expressway. I did not tip.

I see that taxi drivers are exempt from the car-seat law, though at least Aeroport Taxi does provide them. The whole car seat thing makes cars more complicated, though maybe cars should be complicated in general. It sort of is unfortunate in that it makes non-owned cars in particular more complicated.

(01-08-2023, 12:47 PM)plam Wrote: Airways Transit probably still operates but when I was travelling with 2 big bags and 2 small bags yesterday I used Waterloo Taxi ($130 plus [sigh] tip). The GO combination would have taken 2h15, which is fine in some situations, but I figured that after 24 hours of travel it would be nice to not be on the bus for an extra hour. Taxis should be able to accommodate that amount of stuff. Perhaps a minivan taxi.

(01-08-2023, 07:57 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:

(01-08-2023, 05:58 PM)plam Wrote: I see that taxi drivers are exempt from the car-seat law, though at least Aeroport Taxi does provide them. The whole car seat thing makes cars more complicated, though maybe cars should be complicated in general. It sort of is unfortunate in that it makes non-owned cars in particular more complicated.

There is a lot about modern life that makes kids more complicated, just to turn it around a bit. And small vehicles are a significant part of that. Public transit and active transportation are inherently much more kid-friendly. Although vehicles (again) lead to active transportation being another problem for kids where proper infrastructure is not provided.

(01-09-2023, 08:00 AM)danbrotherston Wrote:

(01-08-2023, 07:57 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: There is a lot about modern life that makes kids more complicated, just to turn it around a bit. And small vehicles are a significant part of that. Public transit and active transportation are inherently much more kid-friendly. Although vehicles (again) lead to active transportation being another problem for kids where proper infrastructure is not provided.

You are right about that...I've never been so frustrated to see an elevator out of service as coming off an 8 hour flight, hour train ride, and now have to haul a stroller up a flight of stairs, but it's still easier than trying to sort out vehicles.

I'm curious what you mean by "small" vehicles? Certainly if you have a large number of children you'll need a vehicle with more capacity (minivans are great for this...carry more passengers than the gargantuan pickup trucks most are choosing to drive...many of them haul more too), but we *shouldn't* need large cars for 1-3 children. FWIW...we DO need a larger vehicle for children because our car seats are comically and inconveniently large. The car seat that Tessa's coworker had was....I kid you not...half the size of the one we have in Canada.

(01-09-2023, 09:13 AM)ijmorlan Wrote:

(01-09-2023, 08:00 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: You are right about that...I've never been so frustrated to see an elevator out of service as coming off an 8 hour flight, hour train ride, and now have to haul a stroller up a flight of stairs, but it's still easier than trying to sort out vehicles.

I'm curious what you mean by "small" vehicles? Certainly if you have a large number of children you'll need a vehicle with more capacity (minivans are great for this...carry more passengers than the gargantuan pickup trucks most are choosing to drive...many of them haul more too), but we *shouldn't* need large cars for 1-3 children. FWIW...we DO need a larger vehicle for children because our car seats are comically and inconveniently large. The car seat that Tessa's coworker had was....I kid you not...half the size of the one we have in Canada.

I mean personal vehicles. What I’m saying is that car dependence (of the city) makes things more difficult for people with kids, especially people with lots of kids: you need to have enough car seats for the little ones, and enough seats for everybody. If the whole family is walking somewhere, it doesn’t really matter how many there are or what age. The same is true on public transit (which in many ways is really just supercharged walking). But as soon as you drive somewhere in your own or a rented vehicle, you have additional logistics to consider.

This doesn’t mean I’m promoting a return to the days of 10-child families (and infant mortality and all the other ills that we have worked to reduce), just observing that cars work worse for families with kids than they do for singles and couples. It’s not that you can’t get a family vehicle — minivans are great! — but even if you have the necessary capacity you still have to deal with carseats.

(01-09-2023, 03:48 PM)Acitta Wrote:

(01-09-2023, 09:13 AM)ijmorlan Wrote: I mean personal vehicles. What I’m saying is that car dependence (of the city) makes things more difficult for people with kids, especially people with lots of kids: you need to have enough car seats for the little ones, and enough seats for everybody. If the whole family is walking somewhere, it doesn’t really matter how many there are or what age. The same is true on public transit (which in many ways is really just supercharged walking). But as soon as you drive somewhere in your own or a rented vehicle, you have additional logistics to consider.

This doesn’t mean I’m promoting a return to the days of 10-child families (and infant mortality and all the other ills that we have worked to reduce), just observing that cars work worse for families with kids than they do for singles and couples. It’s not that you can’t get a family vehicle — minivans are great! — but even if you have the necessary capacity you still have to deal with carseats.

I see people hauling their kids around with electric cargo bikes, so you don't always need a car if you have kids.

(01-09-2023, 05:11 PM)plam Wrote: It is certainly possible but there is a lot of social pressure to have a huge car.

(01-09-2023, 06:16 PM)tomh009 Wrote:

(01-09-2023, 05:11 PM)plam Wrote: It is certainly possible but there is a lot of social pressure to have a huge car.

Really? My personal observations (nb anecdotal evidence only!) suggest that people (with money to buy new/newish cars) will buy the kind of vehicles they like. Some people like SUVs/crossovers, some like compact hatchbacks, some bigger sedans, others pickup trucks and yet others minivans. Of course some people will want to have more expensive cars to show off, but I don't think that's necessarily correlated with size. (Full disclosure: we own a hatchback.)

Or am I missing something?

(01-10-2023, 02:26 AM)danbrotherston Wrote:

(01-09-2023, 06:16 PM)tomh009 Wrote: Really? My personal observations (nb anecdotal evidence only!) suggest that people (with money to buy new/newish cars) will buy the kind of vehicles they like. Some people like SUVs/crossovers, some like compact hatchbacks, some bigger sedans, others pickup trucks and yet others minivans. Of course some people will want to have more expensive cars to show off, but I don't think that's necessarily correlated with size. (Full disclosure: we own a hatchback.)

Or am I missing something?

I think this was in reference to carrying children. There's social pressure...also technical pressure...I cannot physically fit the stupidly giant car seat in a subcompact car. Owning a larger vehicle is certainly expected.

And FWIW when it comes to cars and transportation, I don't think any of us are normal

(01-10-2023, 08:47 AM)bravado Wrote:

(01-10-2023, 02:26 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: I think this was in reference to carrying children. There's social pressure...also technical pressure...I cannot physically fit the stupidly giant car seat in a subcompact car. Owning a larger vehicle is certainly expected.

And FWIW when it comes to cars and transportation, I don't think any of us are normal

With parents today (and overbearing grandparents) I think you’d get a fair amount of pushback/questions if you tried to jam kids into a modern Corolla or Civic. Somehow you absolutely need that SUV in 2023 parenting circles and anything else is bordering on neglect.

(01-10-2023, 10:39 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: I will say there is a difference in regulation though, car seats are required for much longer, and car seats have ballooned in size. You'd be hard pressed to fit two of todays car seats in a Ford Tempo and even with my sister and I being 3 years apart, you'd still need two full size car seats which my parents never had.