+- Waterloo Region Connected (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com)
+-- Forum: Waterloo Region Works (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=14)
+--- Forum: Transportation and Infrastructure (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
+--- Thread: Road design, safety and Vision Zero (/showthread.php?tid=1409)
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - danbrotherston - 09-26-2022
(09-26-2022, 12:50 PM)jamincan Wrote: We were hearing the same issue with airplanes that were delayed unloading at Pearson. In general, I think most people handle exceptional circumstances poorly.
People aren't the problem here...it's a systems issue. Why hasn't GO got a clear policy that's communicated effectively to both staff and customers.
It shouldn't be up to the engineer/customer service rep to figure out what to do...
And this is especially frustrating given that I've been in Metrolinx meetings and they make a BIG show of talking about safety procedures. They literally started their meeting IN OUR BUILDING by pointing out to the audience where the emergency exit doors are.
And yet, when a train experiences a malfunction or delay, there's limited communication and no established procedure for what to do. It makes me wonder if their had been a fire if they'd have figured out to USE the emergency exits.
Same for Pearson...although at least with Pearson there is an inter-agency issue. I.e., the pilots/plane are operated by the airline, not by Pearson which would be the agency responsible for supporting any kind of response to an issue. Metrolinx doesn't need to have agreements with anyone to evacuate their trains operating on their tracks.
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - dtkvictim - 09-26-2022
(09-26-2022, 12:57 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:(09-26-2022, 12:50 PM)jamincan Wrote: We were hearing the same issue with airplanes that were delayed unloading at Pearson. In general, I think most people handle exceptional circumstances poorly.
People aren't the problem here...it's a systems issue. Why hasn't GO got a clear policy that's communicated effectively to both staff and customers.
It shouldn't be up to the engineer/customer service rep to figure out what to do...
And this is especially frustrating given that I've been in Metrolinx meetings and they make a BIG show of talking about safety procedures. They literally started their meeting IN OUR BUILDING by pointing out to the audience where the emergency exit doors are.
And yet, when a train experiences a malfunction or delay, there's limited communication and no established procedure for what to do. It makes me wonder if their had been a fire if they'd have figured out to USE the emergency exits.
Same for Pearson...although at least with Pearson there is an inter-agency issue. I.e., the pilots/plane are operated by the airline, not by Pearson which would be the agency responsible for supporting any kind of response to an issue. Metrolinx doesn't need to have agreements with anyone to evacuate their trains operating on their tracks.
I agree on the sentiment that agencies consistently make poor choices here (whether highways, planes, or trains), but people are part of the systems, and will consistently be the weakest link in the system.
If you are referring the recent GO fiasco I am thinking of (I only skimmed the situation, so I may have facts wrong), but it involved a potential shooting, a dangerous to disembark location, police, fire services, GO, and a freight train. That's a complicated situation with many agencies involved. Add in drunk, rowdy passengers damaging trains (perhaps exacerbated by prior poor decisions), and you've got a situation that is both difficult to plan for, and required people in charge to be actively reacting to the situation.
Especially when GO doesn't have all of the facts, if CN/CP or the police are not actively communicating or don't know everything themselves, blindly disembarking might even be a worse decision.
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - danbrotherston - 09-28-2022
This is from nearby London ON, but I think we have a new metric for how good a road safety program is.
https://london.ctvnews.ca/drivers-complaining-about-bike-safe-intersections-get-no-sympathy-from-council-1.6087278
Basically, people are complaining that they have to drive more slowly through an intersection...which is like...the whole fucking point. The complaints are revealing. The concept of being forced to drive carefully and slowly is so foreign to drivers that they believe that it must be a mistake when they are forced to do so.
In any case, the metric is, are drivers complaining.
If drivers aren't complaining about something, then it isn't an effective road safety program. I really wish that staff would be willing to point this out.
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - ijmorlan - 09-28-2022
(09-28-2022, 11:07 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: This is from nearby London ON, but I think we have a new metric for how good a road safety program is.
https://london.ctvnews.ca/drivers-complaining-about-bike-safe-intersections-get-no-sympathy-from-council-1.6087278
Basically, people are complaining that they have to drive more slowly through an intersection...which is like...the whole fucking point. The complaints are revealing. The concept of being forced to drive carefully and slowly is so foreign to drivers that they believe that it must be a mistake when they are forced to do so.
In any case, the metric is, are drivers complaining.
If drivers aren't complaining about something, then it isn't an effective road safety program. I really wish that staff would be willing to point this out.
That intersection looks nice! Here too, please. My only suggestion would be to make the small islands significantly taller — maybe twice the height of a normal curb. But at least they are there and seem to have real curbs on them — a significant disincentive to cutting corners when turning right.
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - Bytor - 09-28-2022
I made post in r/londonontario just for Dan to read the reactions of the locals. ;-)
https://www.reddit.com/r/londonontario/comments/xqj7hi/drivers_complaining_about_bikesafe_intersections/
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - danbrotherston - 09-28-2022
(09-28-2022, 02:32 PM)Bytor Wrote: I made post in r/londonontario just for Dan to read the reactions of the locals. ;-)
https://www.reddit.com/r/londonontario/comments/xqj7hi/drivers_complaining_about_bikesafe_intersections/
Haha, thanks Bytor...that's definitely what I was missing in my life...reddit commentors
I've actually never been in the London subreddit so I have no idea how it will be received.
But thanks lol...it is the town I grew up in after all.
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - danbrotherston - 09-29-2022
https://twitter.com/WR_Record/status/1575456153491972097
https://www.therecord.com/news/municipal-election/2022/09/29/30-kmh-speed-limit-roils-waterloo-election-race.html
Caveat: I have not read the article and I don't believe it's worth my time, for many reasons, partly, I'm neither living in town, nor voting in this election, but also partly because I don't believe anything this road sycophant writes is worth reading.
So, Outhit wrote an article about the speed limit change in Waterloo.
I find this surprising because this is the very first instant I've heard ANYONE mention it, election issue or not. Now, am I missing a large part of the discourse (perhaps because it's not happening on twitter or in the news?)
It seems like I'd have heard about it if it was a frequently raised issue. It seems more like this is a Record Reporter trying to use his platform to raise his pet election issue. And that is not something I would be surprised to hear Outhit do...I believe he is both motivated to in his personal beliefs, and with sufficiently compromised journalistic integrity to do it--or at least convince himself that it's a real issue.
Regardless, good luck guys.
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - cherrypark - 09-29-2022
As much as Councillor Freeman's backtracking the article is a bit weak and overblown, I don't think she's offering that up without it being true out on the trail. Just that she's decided its worth rewinding over vs. having the fortitude like her fellow councillors trying to find common ground and reason with voters.
But Outhit/the Record have been losing their minds about it since the vote, so hardly surprising they are putting a megaphone to it.
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - Bytor - 09-30-2022
Does anybody know if there provincial (MiniTrans) requirements for roundabout layout in Ontario? Googling only gets me results like how to drive in a roundabout, or signage from the Ontario Traffic Manuals.
This goes to that image I post a bit a go of a Dutch-style roundabout done up with Ontario traffic markings. It had sharper right hand turns to enter land leave, just like Dutch roundabouts where as Ontario roundabouts all have slip-lane like entrances and exits so cars don't have to slow down very much (unless the roundabout is so busy that they have to stop).
I'm trying to determine if Ontario roundabout are designed that way for reasons of regulatory compliance, of it it's just traffic engineers just stuck in their groove and not adapting, like so much else about North American traffic engineering.
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - danbrotherston - 09-30-2022
(09-29-2022, 01:57 PM)cherrypark Wrote: As much as Councillor Freeman's backtracking the article is a bit weak and overblown, I don't think she's offering that up without it being true out on the trail. Just that she's decided its worth rewinding over vs. having the fortitude like her fellow councillors trying to find common ground and reason with voters.
But Outhit/the Record have been losing their minds about it since the vote, so hardly surprising they are putting a megaphone to it.
Yup...
But I think they're not getting much traction on it, and that makes me happy.
It just pisses me off that 90% of the people who have a problem with this, both claim that they are ignoring what the people want, and are also in the minority of people who wanted nothing. (Even though plenty of them will lie and say they'd accept 40km/h)
FWIW...the majority of the roads where I live are 30km/h. And the street outside our home has no posted limit (30km/h is default) and yet average traffic speeds are more like 15km/h. I literally get held up when I am behind a car on my bike.
It is all road design, but we have to be willing to design for 30km/h. Our engineers are unwilling to do this even with a 30km/h (they'll insist on 40km/h still, but that's better than the 60km/h they designed for before). That being said, I doubt anyone in the city has the knowledge and skills to design for 30km/h as doing so would involve going "off book" as the standard reference manuals they rely on do not have designs for 30km/h roads. But, lowering speed limits to 30km/h is the first step (and must be the first step).
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - danbrotherston - 10-01-2022
Okay, this one MUST be Toronto right?
https://twitter.com/TheBikingLawyer/status/1576285668162277379
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - ijmorlan - 10-01-2022
(10-01-2022, 03:41 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Okay, this one MUST be Toronto right?
https://twitter.com/TheBikingLawyer/status/1576285668162277379
That’s the Princes’ Gates in the background:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princes%27_Gates
I don’t care if it’s a specific protest or not — if that many people can use a road all at once, I think they’re entitled to do so. Bicycles are traffic too after all!
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - neonjoe - 10-01-2022
(10-01-2022, 03:41 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Okay, this one MUST be Toronto right?
https://twitter.com/TheBikingLawyer/status/1576285668162277379
Definitely Toronto!
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - danbrotherston - 10-18-2022
I remember reading somewhere that these bricks across the road are used as an additional traffic calming measure in the Netherlands (they are noisy and cause a slight vibration...less than a speed bump but still something, and cheaper and quieter than doing the entire road in brick), but I cannot find the source. To me, it looks like a road repair patch. Does can anyone confirm or deny either theory with a source?
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - tomh009 - 10-18-2022
It sure looks more like a repair than a calming device.