(05-29-2020, 03:02 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 01:39 PM)tomh009 Wrote: I have yet to see any project cancellations. The only ones that have been halted recently are Drewlo (they stopped everything) and 335 King St W; I fully expect them to resume.

The vast majority of the DTK projects are residential, which is likely not going to be significantly impacted by people working from home.

I think the assumption/fear is that when companies start doing more work from home, then people won't have to move to the region in order to work for a company in the region.

(05-29-2020, 05:52 PM)dtkvictim Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 04:54 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I think you kind of make the point, you don't want to live downtown, some but people do. I think it's very presumtive to assume people who live in different housing from one's self must be miserable. I certainly don't think that people living in the suburbs are miserable because they live in a suburb and that would make me miserable.

I must not have come across the way I meant to. For the record, I have lived in rural, suburban, and now urban housing. There have been pros and cons to each of these arrangements, and I'm not trying to come across as "rural good, urban bad". My point was about averages. I think on average people prefer to not live in urban centers (at least in the current North American state of urban centers), and I think more remote work will make the choice to live further out an easier one to make.

I'm not saying no one likes living downtown, or that there will be a mass exodus. Simply that it does have the potential to hurt urban growth because there are a lot of people here that would prefer to be elsewhere.

(...)

I haven't seen many attempts to figure out cause and effect on this topic, but one suggestion that pops up most often is that lower density is more conducive to forming communities, and that community is almost something like a prerequisite for happiness.

(05-29-2020, 05:52 PM)dtkvictim Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 04:54 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I think you kind of make the point, you don't want to live downtown, some but people do. I think it's very presumtive to assume people who live in different housing from one's self must be miserable. I certainly don't think that people living in the suburbs are miserable because they live in a suburb and that would make me miserable.

I must not have come across the way I meant to. For the record, I have lived in rural, suburban, and now urban housing. There have been pros and cons to each of these arrangements, and I'm not trying to come across as "rural good, urban bad". My point was about averages. I think on average people prefer to not live in urban centers (at least in the current North American state of urban centers), and I think more remote work will make the choice to live further out an easier one to make.

I'm not saying no one likes living downtown, or that there will be a mass exodus. Simply that it does have the potential to hurt urban growth because there are a lot of people here that would prefer to be elsewhere.

(05-29-2020, 04:54 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Now as for happiness, that's an interesting point, but there are other factors, urban centres are not one group, for one, and the features of a particular urban centre may have an impact.  Measuring happiness is also not totally cut and dry. Also, conservatives (who live outside of cities more often) tend to measure higher on some happiness measures, in some places.  That alone could explain the difference between urban and suburban areas.

Yes, it's frustrating trying to find out good information about this topic. Happiness being subjective, and often conflated with other feelings, makes it even more difficult. Nonetheless, I think it's very important. And while density and happiness are generally negatively correlated, it's not clear that one causes the other. Do unhappy people move to cities because they think cities will have more opportunities for happiness? To your point on conservatives, perhaps they are conservative because they are happy with the way things are and see change as an unneeded risk, and perhaps their happiness comes from being in a rural area? I don't know.

I haven't seen many attempts to figure out cause and effect on this topic, but one suggestion that pops up most often is that lower density is more conducive to forming communities, and that community is almost something like a prerequisite for happiness.

(05-29-2020, 03:28 PM)panamaniac Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 01:39 PM)tomh009 Wrote: I have yet to see any project cancellations. The only ones that have been halted recently are Drewlo (they stopped everything) and 335 King St W; I fully expect them to resume.

The vast majority of the DTK projects are residential, which is likely not going to be significantly impacted by people working from home.

Unless it dawns on people that being stuck in a 600sqft box for 20 hours a day is less appealing than moving further out to get more space.  The suburbs/exurbs could see some action if it really doesn't matter where you live anymore.

(05-29-2020, 04:33 PM)ac3r Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 03:02 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I do think this fear is unfounded

It definitely is. Covid-19 is a deadly virus, but we're most certainly going to triumph over it in a year or two. People won't be working from home forever. Worst case scenario, we don't see as many office developments proposed in the next couple years as people and businesses recover financially. But, once things are back to normal, human society will not really change much.

(05-29-2020, 10:05 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 03:28 PM)panamaniac Wrote: Unless it dawns on people that being stuck in a 600sqft box for 20 hours a day is less appealing than moving further out to get more space.  The suburbs/exurbs could see some action if it really doesn't matter where you live anymore.

How nice is the box? And does moving further out force one to spend 1 hour in the morning and 1 hour in the afternoon stuck in a 20sqft box with rounded corners?

(05-30-2020, 07:43 AM)clasher Wrote: In April, my partner moved in temporarily while their housemate was refusing to social distance or take any precautions. I dunno if our relationship would work with both of us home all the time, especially if we were in a condo. I am lucky to have two floors so I spent a lot of time upstairs while she worked downstairs. I wouldn't want to have to try and work from home while they were also doing the same... I just played my biking video games or went outside to ride if it was nice enough. My partner has WFH for a long time so they are used it, but if I had to WFH as well I would want two separate offices for each of us... I can't imagine a lot of folks are gonna wanna keep working on the kitchen table indefinitely. I dunno if that will drive people to move out to the suburbs though, I think a bunch of people are gonna head back to the office asap.

(05-29-2020, 10:33 PM)panamaniac Wrote: You missed the context.  The 20spft box would no longer be needed for that purpose as the other venue would no longer exist as a daily destination.  I suggested that, if that were to occur, there are people who would choose to move out to more spacious accomodations.  Maybe a garden ... .  Not everyone, of course, but if there is no longer any communting "penalty" it certainly becomes an option for those so inclined.

(05-30-2020, 09:07 AM)panamaniac Wrote: No doubt, if that remains an option.  How many companies will "Shopify"?

(05-31-2020, 09:01 AM)jamincan Wrote: I live in an apartment - I think roughly 800 sqft - by myself. I've actually been considering upsizing, and think it would be challenging for me to live in this space with more than one person. I've been lucky in that my work has carried on through the shutdown and I've continued to go into work and that my work is such that I am able to keep interactions with others minimal.

Part of what makes living in an apartment doable is that I can take advantage of public spaces, and we're quite fortunate in that respect in Kitchener. I try to always get out of the apartment once per day minimum, as I find my mental health rapidly deteriorates if I don't. In that respect, I think covid-19 has been especially difficult on those WFH who live in apartments, especially somewhere like downtown Toronto. If all the public spaces you would normally use are shutdown, that leaves you stuck in your apartment. I'm not at all surprised to see the massive crowds in parks there.

That said, looking at the bigger picture post-covid-19, I'd gladly WFH if public amenities were still available. I'm rarely more productive than when I go to the library for the day (and I'm missing it sorely). I also wonder if shared office spaces (I think there's another name for this) will become more common as companies now have the infrastructure to support it better. I could live in, say Owen Sound, and walk to a local shared-office space and remote-in from there. I still benefit from keeping work and home spaces separate, but I have the freedom to live where I like.

(05-31-2020, 10:24 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: I think the term you're looking for is co-working spaces, and yes, we should have more of those.  WeWork is the most....well....well known, name in the space, although perhaps not the best example given the controversy. In Waterloo Region there are probably a dozen smaller (and more logical) realestate companies offering co-working and smaller flex office spaces.

(05-31-2020, 09:01 AM)jamincan Wrote: Part of what makes living in an apartment doable is that I can take advantage of public spaces, and we're quite fortunate in that respect in Kitchener. I try to always get out of the apartment once per day minimum, as I find my mental health rapidly deteriorates if I don't. In that respect, I think covid-19 has been especially difficult on those WFH who live in apartments, especially somewhere like downtown Toronto. If all the public spaces you would normally use are shutdown, that leaves you stuck in your apartment. I'm not at all surprised to see the massive crowds in parks there.

(05-31-2020, 01:24 PM)tomh009 Wrote:

(05-31-2020, 09:01 AM)jamincan Wrote: Part of what makes living in an apartment doable is that I can take advantage of public spaces, and we're quite fortunate in that respect in Kitchener. I try to always get out of the apartment once per day minimum, as I find my mental health rapidly deteriorates if I don't. In that respect, I think covid-19 has been especially difficult on those WFH who live in apartments, especially somewhere like downtown Toronto. If all the public spaces you would normally use are shutdown, that leaves you stuck in your apartment. I'm not at all surprised to see the massive crowds in parks there.

Well ... not quite stuck in your apartment, I would argue. I have gone for early-morning walks every single day during the pandemic, and the urban streets are quiet, I just occasionally need to cross the street to avoid someone walking a dog etc. Even parks and the IHT are not bad early, but city streets are even quieter.