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+--- Thread: King-Victoria Transit Hub (/showthread.php?tid=15)
RE: King and Victoria Intermodal Station - Pheidippides - 02-22-2016
I think those that are dreaming of 2019 completion date over in the grt thread are too optimistic on how the fast the process is going to be and underestimating the complexities that it will require working with a number of bureaucracies (GrandLinq, CN, MetroLynx, etc.). I hope they are right, but i will not hold my breath at this time. Also, Moving slowly on a project of this importance isn’t necessarily a bad thing, making sure we get such a vital component to our community right will be very important for the next 50-100 years.
Just look at the last set of timelines (below) to see they compare to the revised timelines (also below) to see how much the timelines have changed.
Also, it sounds as if nothing is going to proceed until partial federal or provincial funding is secured. Note the words "subject to" on page 177, “That, subject to securing adequate cost-shared funding, the Region proceed with a Request For Qualification and Request For Proposal process to select a master developer to construct the on-site Transit Hub infrastructure and mixed-use development.”
Finally, another thing that isn’t clear about the timelines from the latest documents is the timing of “on-site” portion of the development, which includes bus bays and bus loops, that isn’t supposed to happen until 2025 and the GRT reconfiguration is to be complete by 2019 when CST is decommissioned in 2019. So does that mean there just won’t be a bus “hub” for 6+ years?
http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/discoveringTheRegion/resources/P-14-061__KING_VICTORIA_MULTI-MODAL_TRANSIT_HUB_PROPOSED_PROCUREMENT.pdf
As of May 2014 report the timelines mentioned were:
Phase 1 – Planning and Feasibility
Effectively complete.
Phase 2 – Preparation for and Issuance of a Request For Proposal
1. Establish a Revised Project Management Structure (June-July 2014)
2. Selection of a Financial / Procurement Advisor and Development of a Municipal Business Case and Financial Plan (Fall 2014).
3. Selection of Legal and Engineering Advisors and Development of the RFP Documents (February 2015 to August 2015)
4. Issuance of a Request for Qualifications (RFQ) (Fall 2015).
Phase 3 – Selection of Development Proponent
5. Selection of Short Listed Proponents (late 2015/early 2016).
6. Issuance of Second Stage of the RFP (first half of 2016).
7. Selection of a Preferred Proponent (mid 2016).
8. Closing of the RFP (late 2016).
Phase 4 – Construction
9. Construction (early to mid-year 2017).
http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/regionalGovernment/resources/PW/PA20160223.pdf
As of February 2016 report the timelines mentioned are:
Phase 2 – Preparation for and Issuance of a Request For Proposal
2. Selection of a Financial / Procurement Advisor and Development of a Municipal Business Case and Financial Plan (February 2016).
3. Selection of Legal and Engineering Advisors and Development of the RFP Documents (2016/2017)
Phase 4 – Construction
9. Construction (2019 start “off-site infrastructure” (e.g. train platform, canopy, track work, pedestrian accesses, MU trail) with 2021/22 completion, 2025 start for “on-site” (e.g. parking, public squares, bus loops/bays, Kiss and ride, transit hall, mixed-use developments).
GRT plans to reconfigure its bus network around ION and phase out the Charles Street Terminal by 2019.
all transit-related components are in their operational period, assumed to be 2027.
Potential offsetting savings available to the Region include the Charles Street Terminal O&M savings (approximately $1 million annually) post 2019.
RE: King and Victoria Intermodal Station - tomh009 - 02-22-2016
It may well be that the timelines/sequences have changed over the last two years.
RE: King and Victoria Intermodal Station - BuildingScout - 02-22-2016
(02-22-2016, 11:32 AM)Pheidippides Wrote: I think those that are dreaming of 2019 completion date over in the grt thread are too optimistic on how the fast the process is going to be and underestimating the complexities that it will require working with a number of bureaucracies (GrandLinq, CN, MetroLynx, etc.).
I think you are misreading the comments there. We are saying that this could physically be planned and built in three years, but we fully acknowledge that in this town everything related to construction moves like molasses so likely won't open until well beyond 2019.
RE: King and Victoria Intermodal Station - jamincan - 02-22-2016
Waterloo Region is one of the few areas in this country where they actually get things done in a reasonable time frame. It's one of the things I love about this place.
RE: King and Victoria Intermodal Station - REnerd - 02-22-2016
(02-22-2016, 05:45 PM)BuildingScout Wrote:(02-22-2016, 11:32 AM)Pheidippides Wrote: I think those that are dreaming of 2019 completion date over in the grt thread are too optimistic on how the fast the process is going to be and underestimating the complexities that it will require working with a number of bureaucracies (GrandLinq, CN, MetroLynx, etc.).
I think you are misreading the comments there. We are saying that this could physically be planned and built in three years, but we fully acknowledge that in this town everything related to construction moves like molasses so likely won't open until well beyond 2019.
Anything 'could' be possible.
However, it is not just construction pace that will slow this down. This is a giant undertaking which is anticipated to have hundreds of thousands of square feet of real estate developed. Finding the eventual developer with enough faith in the Kitchener market to make such a commitment will take time and lots of due diligence (for both the Region and the future developer/partner).
Also, I would be willing to wager that no one will touch this until there is a better train schedule between Kitchener and Toronto. Tenants of any retail will want foot-traffic that will come from trains....
Will be interesting to watch this unfold...
RE: King and Victoria Intermodal Station - Viewfromthe42 - 02-23-2016
Let's just be clear: The documents say a 2019 start, with completion 3-4 years later, for offsite elements, e.g. the trail and rail facilities. So yes, even the region does not see anything opening in 2019, other than holes in the ground.
RE: King and Victoria Intermodal Station - MidTowner - 02-23-2016
And that means that Grand River Transit will be without a downtown terminal for three years or more, doesn't it? Interesting.
RE: King and Victoria Intermodal Station - tomh009 - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 08:15 AM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: Let's just be clear: The documents say a 2019 start, with completion 3-4 years later, for offsite elements, e.g. the trail and rail facilities. So yes, even the region does not see anything opening in 2019, other than holes in the ground.
It's still all very preliminary; this is what the regional documents referenced above say (highlights mine):
Quote:For budgeting purposes, it is assumed that construction of the Transit Hub begins in 2019, but the land may be available as early as late 2017. A second phase of construction is assumed for 2025, but could be accelerated to an earlier date depending on available funding to achieve full buildout of the on- and off-site infrastructure by 2021/2022.
Note the level of uncertainty on the schedule!
In any case, their concept has a bus loop with only five bays (including Greyhound?), so really they are not expecting many GRT bus routes to stop at the Victoria St station. The Charles St station will be decommissioned not because Victoria St station is ready, but because the bus lines will have been reconfigured to connect with ION instead of all going to a central hub.
RE: King and Victoria Intermodal Station - BuildingScout - 02-23-2016
(02-22-2016, 06:25 PM)REnerd Wrote: Anything 'could' be possible.
However, it is not just construction pace that will slow this down. This is a giant undertaking which is anticipated to have hundreds of thousands of square feet of real estate developed. Finding the eventual developer with enough faith in the Kitchener market to make such a commitment will take time and lots of due diligence (for both the Region and the future developer/partner).
Also, I would be willing to wager that no one will touch this until there is a better train schedule between Kitchener and Toronto. Tenants of any retail will want foot-traffic that will come from trains....
Will be interesting to watch this unfold...
By 'could' I mean it is realistic if there was the will to do it. They would have to (1) accelerate the planning process (2) bring in some of the big guns both in terms of developers and construction firms, but it is doable. However as I said, we are slow central here and I do not expect this project to be completed before 2026 or 2027.
RE: King and Victoria Intermodal Station - Canard - 02-23-2016
I don't think we're slow here.
RE: King and Victoria Intermodal Station - Markster - 02-23-2016
Yeah, I really don't see KW as being especially slow.
We have our fast projects, and our slow projects, just like anywhere else.
RE: King and Victoria Intermodal Station - REnerd - 02-23-2016
Agreed. Think about how quickly the Breithaupt Block happened once tenants were secured. Or 8 Queen.
It is all about leasing and sales, not construction. For example, City Center was put up very quickly once they hit sales targets (which took forever).
If we want to talk about the 'slowness' in the market for office leasing, that is a whole different conversation that would dovetail nicely into why the transit hub is going to take a long, long time to be completed (IMO).
RE: King and Victoria Intermodal Station - MidTowner - 02-23-2016
I think we should to a certain extent stop conflating the transit hub portion of the project, and all of the retail, commercial and residential portion of the project. It’s definitely going to take ages for sufficient demand to build up for all of the space we’ve seen proposed at this site and for the site to be built out completely. But the infrastructure needed to give transit users a place to transfer from one mode to another, that could be built in a few years (but probably won’t be).
RE: King and Victoria Intermodal Station - LesPio - 02-24-2016
The latest update in the news. Region plans to spend over $40 million on downtown Kitchener transit hub
http://www.therecord.com/news-story/6330440--43-million-transit-hub-planned-at-king-and-victoria-streets-in-kitchener/
http://www.570news.com/2016/02/24/region-plans-to-spend-over-40-million-on-downtown-kitchener-transit-hub/
RE: King and Victoria Intermodal Station - Canard - 02-24-2016
This is such awesome news!!