(12-27-2020, 09:35 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:

(12-27-2020, 07:18 PM)jeffster Wrote: Really good summary. I had a hard time visualizing how this would have worked had it been down in the yards, but it would have been a hot mess either way, and not pedestrian friendly at all. My issue that I saw, apart from having to navigate a lot of stair, is that it would not have had a visual presence from the street, which would have made it a security risk for Ion users. Not that you can't be mugged at any of the current stops, but at least you have somewhere to go, and you can be seen.

I guess that's why no subway station in the world is a success....

Honestly, this is ridiculous, grade separated stations are expensive, but in no way impossible or difficult to do well. Obviously also possible to do poorly, as are at grade stations, the station at Block Line being an excellent example (it's terrible as is, utterly idiotic), and ironic that you bring up social safety given that the alignment on Block Line has probably the most dangerous situation in the city.

It's bizarre to be having this discussion, one venue over you'll find people explaining how at grade transit is always garbage. I've not taken the extreme view in either direction, instead basing my opinion on context. This bridge is already grade separated, the context leads to a grade separated station, nothing else.

(12-27-2020, 11:51 PM)jeffster Wrote: AODA compliance would have been a nightmare, not only would you need functioning elevators, you'd also need a ramp as back-up.

Quote:Hindsight also suggests that it may have been a risk, with people taking shortcuts and cutting holes in fences, or by-passing fences that would need to have been built to keep people off of the yard tracks. While I have only seen minimal activity in the yards, it is there, and some idiot is bound to be run over by a slow moving train.

(12-27-2020, 11:51 PM)jeffster Wrote: You do know that anyone that wanted to use the Ion from Homer Watson or Fallowfield area would have had to cross the bridge anyway, then backtrack toward Homer Watson and down stairs, a ramp, or an elevator. Not sure how you figured it would be closer to them.

(12-27-2020, 11:51 PM)jeffster Wrote:

(12-27-2020, 09:35 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I guess that's why no subway station in the world is a success....

Honestly, this is ridiculous, grade separated stations are expensive, but in no way impossible or difficult to do well. Obviously also possible to do poorly, as are at grade stations, the station at Block Line being an excellent example (it's terrible as is, utterly idiotic), and ironic that you bring up social safety given that the alignment on Block Line has probably the most dangerous situation in the city.

It's bizarre to be having this discussion, one venue over you'll find people explaining how at grade transit is always garbage. I've not taken the extreme view in either direction, instead basing my opinion on context. This bridge is already grade separated, the context leads to a grade separated station, nothing else.

Maybe you have never spent any time in Toronto, or any subway station for that matter, but two big differences: 1) Subway stations tend to be busy, even at slow times. The presence of other people is a deterrent. This isn't the case for Ion much past 8 or 9 PM. I know this because I have lived in Toronto, and I have used the Ion. One is always busy, one isn't. 2) There tends to be staff, security or police at subway stations. This doesn't seem to be the case for the Ion, as our stops are really no different than bus stops.

Putting the station down in the yards not only would have been more expensive but also not friendly at all for users. It would have been further for everyone to use. AODA compliance would have been a nightmare, not only would you need functioning elevators, you'd also need a ramp as back-up. Hindsight also suggests that it may have been a risk, with people taking shortcuts and cutting holes in fences, or by-passing fences that would need to have been built to keep people off of the yard tracks. While I have only seen minimal activity in the yards, it is there, and some idiot is bound to be run over by a slow moving train.

You do know that anyone that wanted to use the Ion from Homer Watson or Fallowfield area would have had to cross the bridge anyway, then backtrack toward Homer Watson and down stairs, a ramp, or an elevator. Not sure how you figured it would be closer to them.

It's almost like you didn't do any research on this.

(12-23-2020, 09:15 PM)KevinL Wrote: It would be very strange having the only grade separated station on the line be in such a (currently) underdeveloped area. If they were going to similar expense to put in others I could understand, but then you have the budget increasing even more, which at the time would have killed the project.

I do have to wonder if a more gentle access to the rail corridor behind Graybar, rather than going along Hayward, would have made the curves less severe.

(12-27-2020, 10:01 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: For some context, I grabbed a sat photo, then copied the exact station platform under the bridge at the bridge pier...then I copied stairways from the Cooksville GO Station, where the stairway reaches the third floor of the parking garage. This is the maximum possible space a stairway would need, different configurations and lower heights could shrink and move this stairway as needed. You could have access from both sides of the bridge, and also an elevator for accessibility. It takes only a few dozen seconds to climb these stairs. The platform could be widened as needed to accomodate these features. The CP line under the bridge would need to be moved, but there is quite a bit of unused space there between the tracks.  And the Fallowfield buildings could be less than a 400 meter walk from the station.

(12-28-2020, 09:38 AM)neonjoe Wrote:

(12-23-2020, 09:15 PM)KevinL Wrote: It would be very strange having the only grade separated station on the line be in such a (currently) underdeveloped area. If they were going to similar expense to put in others I could understand, but then you have the budget increasing even more, which at the time would have killed the project.

I do have to wonder if a more gentle access to the rail corridor behind Graybar, rather than going along Hayward, would have made the curves less severe.

(12-27-2020, 10:01 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: For some context, I grabbed a sat photo, then copied the exact station platform under the bridge at the bridge pier...then I copied stairways from the Cooksville GO Station, where the stairway reaches the third floor of the parking garage. This is the maximum possible space a stairway would need, different configurations and lower heights could shrink and move this stairway as needed. You could have access from both sides of the bridge, and also an elevator for accessibility. It takes only a few dozen seconds to climb these stairs. The platform could be widened as needed to accomodate these features. The CP line under the bridge would need to be moved, but there is quite a bit of unused space there between the tracks.  And the Fallowfield buildings could be less than a 400 meter walk from the station.

I think the photoshop caused me to realize that there might have been some engineering or rework to the bridge structure itself to fit in the station and associated infrastructure unless an agreement with the railroads were to be made. The bridge embankment footings are just covered by quick copy and paste of the rails and platform. The bridge was built by and is owned by COK and not the region.
It definitely was a cost related decision rather that usability. The current station will be friendlier if the Vierra Village condos ever get built. I do agree right now it’s the most hostile station to passengers being right beside the road.

(12-28-2020, 03:05 PM)neonjoe Wrote: I have seen so many vehicles at this intersection making a left from EB/NB Charles to Benton. (I’ve often been stuck waiting behind someone blocking the road waiting to make the illegal left)  I’m not surprised that this hasn’t happened more frequently.

(12-28-2020, 02:55 PM)Bob_McBob Wrote: Hopefully the last LRT collision of the year.