ION Phase 2 - Cambridge's Light Rail Transit

[KevinL]

Thing is, they're considering a station on Samuelson if the Milton GO line ever gets extended and a GO station is put in there. If that ever gets definitively ruled out, then a Beverly/Dundas station could work.

[dtkvictim]

Notice of Commencement of TPA

https://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/livin...ACCESS.pdf
https://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/explo...e2ion.aspx

Engage survey: https://www.engagewr.ca/Stage2ION/survey...ect-report

https://youtu.be/MRlauBdyGjY

[Acitta]

LRT to Cambridge takes a big step

[ac3r]

What are the chances the feds/province really pays the entire bill as this news segment suggests?

[danbrotherston]

What are the chances the feds/province really pays the entire bill as this news segment suggests?

Depends on who wins the next election obviously.

Honestly, funding basic infrastructure with politically motivated grants is such a broken system.

[danbrotherston]

There is a writeup of the Phase 2 environmental assessment in The Record.

Any idea why they are referring to Phase 1 as a "1 billion dollar project", as I recall it was under 900 million. That's a pretty big gap.

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...e-lrt.html

It is notable that Cambridge is going to be a solid 50% more.

[Acitta]

By the time it is built, I am not sure that I will care about travelling to Cambridge any more.

[ac3r]

There is a writeup of the Phase 2 environmental assessment in The Record.

Any idea why they are referring to Phase 1 as a "1 billion dollar project", as I recall it was under 900 million. That's a pretty big gap.

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...e-lrt.html

It is notable that Cambridge is going to be a solid 50% more.

They're probably rounding up for the sake of the article. While it was 50 million over budget, it was still below 900 million in the end.

Cambridge will end up costing more because we'll be building so many sections of it elevated. The amount of engineering and construction needed to get it across the Grand River Valley will be immense for this region.

[ijmorlan]

They're probably rounding up for the sake of the article. While it was 50 million over budget, it was still below 900 million in the end.

Cambridge will end up costing more because we'll be building so many sections of it elevated. The amount of engineering and construction needed to get it across the Grand River Valley will be immense for this region.

Also there are various numbers that could be used, depending on context:

- Total capital expenditure
- Regional share of capital expenditure
- Grandlinq portion of capital expenditure
- Grandlinq contract total value (large fraction of capital plus 30 years operating/maintenance)

There are other numbers one might quote as well.

I just hope they are more serious about fast and efficient operation than they have been with the first phase. It would be an absolute travesty if the long sections parallel to the expressway and along rail rights-of-way didn’t see routine operation of the LRVs at their maximum operating speed.

[danbrotherston]

They're probably rounding up for the sake of the article. While it was 50 million over budget, it was still below 900 million in the end.

Cambridge will end up costing more because we'll be building so many sections of it elevated. The amount of engineering and construction needed to get it across the Grand River Valley will be immense for this region.

Also there are various numbers that could be used, depending on context:

- Total capital expenditure
- Regional share of capital expenditure
- Grandlinq portion of capital expenditure
- Grandlinq contract total value (large fraction of capital plus 30 years operating/maintenance)

There are other numbers one might quote as well.

I just hope they are more serious about fast and efficient operation than they have been with the first phase. It would be an absolute travesty if the long sections parallel to the expressway and along rail rights-of-way didn’t see routine operation of the LRVs at their maximum operating speed.

The ~880MM is the closest of those numbers to a billion.

I certainly agree with the speed issue, the LRVs should be going faster in many, maybe even most places.  That being said, I haven't ridden the train since the pandemic started...are they actually going above 50km/h now with ATP enabled?

[ac3r]

I'm pretty sure they are going faster now. Of course I have no way to measure the speed, but when it does travel down certain sections of "safe" track it really does seem to go faster than before. As for when it travels anywhere near roads, it goes as slow as it always has.

[danbrotherston]

I'm pretty sure they are going faster now. Of course I have no way to measure the speed, but when it does travel down certain sections of "safe" track it really does seem to go faster than before. As for when it travels anywhere near roads, it goes as slow as it always has.

It makes me downright angry that the LRV is limited to a lower speed limit than the surrounding traffic in many places. But it kind of demonstrates what I said in another thread, our regulations for ground transport are an abject failure.

[taylortbb]

I'm pretty sure they are going faster now. Of course I have no way to measure the speed, but when it does travel down certain sections of "safe" track it really does seem to go faster than before. As for when it travels anywhere near roads, it goes as slow as it always has.

It makes me downright angry that the LRV is limited to a lower speed limit than the surrounding traffic in many places. But it kind of demonstrates what I said in another thread, our regulations for ground transport are an abject failure.

I don't think that's a regulatory issue, that's the design speed of the track. ION phase 1 was all about reducing costs, and higher speeds cost more. Higher speeds require the track be straighter, which then requires more expropriation to straighten out the street, and so on. Or you use high-floor trains, which have significantly more flexibility with track geometry, but then you spend more on the stations.

[danbrotherston]

It makes me downright angry that the LRV is limited to a lower speed limit than the surrounding traffic in many places. But it kind of demonstrates what I said in another thread, our regulations for ground transport are an abject failure.

I don't think that's a regulatory issue, that's the design speed of the track. ION phase 1 was all about reducing costs, and higher speeds cost more. Higher speeds require the track be straighter, which then requires more expropriation to straighten out the street, and so on. Or you use high-floor trains, which have significantly more flexibility with track geometry, but then you spend more on the stations.

There are perfectly straight sections of track where this is an issue. Slowing down around turns is reasonable but trains going straight along Northfield which last time I was there, were limited to 50km/h when surrounding traffic is limited to 60km/h and routinely exceeds 80km/h. They are separated from the road with fully controlled cross traffic, and the track is straight.

[ijmorlan]

The ~880MM is the closest of those numbers to a billion.

I think the Grandlinq contract total value might be higher. But of course that is an arbitrary number which could have been made to come out arbitrarily high by going for a different number of years. 30 years of maintenance and operation turns out to be a lot of money.

I also forgot to mention gross expense or net of fare revenue, which because of integration with the bus system introduces a whole other set of complexities. Turns out buying transit systems isn’t like buying pens and pencils.