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Winter Walking and Cycling
(05-09-2019, 09:41 AM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(05-09-2019, 09:34 AM)MidTowner Wrote: Is this going to full council? I assume so but, if not, is there a way to register as a delegation at the Infrastructure Committee? It seems like delegations are already set for the other agenda items.

I talked to my city councillor, (Debbie Chapman Ward 9), and she said that she believed it would go to full council, and that it could be delegated on at either council....she even said one could delegate at both, which I'm not 100% clear on if this is perhaps...frowned upon.

It is entirely possible to delegate at the committee meeting: https://www.kitchener.ca/en/city-service...ation.aspx

What happens if you register to speak but end up not being there when they call you up? I'm debating about registering but I'm not sure what time I can get there given my work schedule.
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They just skip past you to the next person.
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(05-10-2019, 02:48 PM)dtkmelissa Wrote:
(05-09-2019, 09:41 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: I talked to my city councillor, (Debbie Chapman Ward 9), and she said that she believed it would go to full council, and that it could be delegated on at either council....she even said one could delegate at both, which I'm not 100% clear on if this is perhaps...frowned upon.

It is entirely possible to delegate at the committee meeting: https://www.kitchener.ca/en/city-service...ation.aspx

What happens if you register to speak but end up not being there when they call you up? I'm debating about registering but I'm not sure what time I can get there given my work schedule.

Staff's goal generally is to a) keep the meeting moving on schedule, and b) give everyone the opportunity to speak.  Sometimes these options will be at odds, sometimes they aren't.  As Bob_McBob mentioned, they'll skip over you if you're not there, no problem, if you arrive later but still during delegations on the same item, they may also try to fit you in...

I'll be at the meeting, so feel free to message me if you're looking for an update on the progress of the meeting (DM on twitter is a good bet)
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(05-10-2019, 05:34 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(05-10-2019, 02:48 PM)dtkmelissa Wrote: What happens if you register to speak but end up not being there when they call you up? I'm debating about registering but I'm not sure what time I can get there given my work schedule.

Staff's goal generally is to a) keep the meeting moving on schedule, and b) give everyone the opportunity to speak.  Sometimes these options will be at odds, sometimes they aren't.  As Bob_McBob mentioned, they'll skip over you if you're not there, no problem, if you arrive later but still during delegations on the same item, they may also try to fit you in...

I'll be at the meeting, so feel free to message me if you're looking for an update on the progress of the meeting (DM on twitter is a good bet)

Excellent. Thanks!
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So how did the meeting go?
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(05-13-2019, 03:05 PM)MidTowner Wrote: So how did the meeting go?

TL;DR The staff report passed, as written, with a small amendment from Sarah Marsh to change the working centre supported sidewalk clearing support program to 100 homes from the previous 50 with the requisite increase in funding.  The report as approved, will move to council in two weeks if others wish to attend then.

Other amendments from Councillor Scott Davey to defer component 2 (the actual snow clearing pilot), and from Councillor Debbie Chapman amending component 2 to be a full pilot instead of all snow clearing instead of only being triggered at 8 cm both failed, with Ms. Chapman's motion ending in a very close 5-5 tie.

I was the only delegation, sadly.  There was extensive discussion.  I was frustrated by the inability, unwillingness, or general lack of focus on actually evaluating metrics of how clear the sidewalk is.  Staff's report does not seem to measure this in any way, besides the single datapoint of pro-active bylaw enforcement finding that 20% of sidewalks are blocked when the lax bylaw standards actually apply--what I would call strong evidence that the current system is an abject failure.

I do not know why this was not evaluated for existing city cleared sidewalks, I do not know why this is not a priority.

Staff are planning to get environics or other agency to do a survey of people's opinions, which I think is pointless, I do not care what people think of our sidewalks. I already know their opinions are not based in fact, or objective evaluation.  What I care about is whether our sidewalks are clear.
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Thank you for going. I'm sorry I couldn't- I had a work commitment that was largely out of my control.

I made comments to my councillor that she had said would be brought up in the committee meeting. I guess that didn't happen. I'm extremely disappointed that the way in which staff enforced the bylaw changed from one year to the next (I still don't know exactly when) with no consultation to guide those changes, and no communication of them after the fact.

As a property owner and a resident who walks around the sidewalks, I feel I have the right to know what is expected of me vis a vis the sidewalks, and what I should expect of the sidewalks.

I agree with you about paying for a study from a third party. A person's opinion about the sidewalks is not relevant if he or she never uses them. My feeling that roads are great doesn't and shouldn't hold a lot of water if I wasn't driving on them. I don't see why this piece of infrastructure should be treated differently than others.
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(05-14-2019, 07:15 AM)MidTowner Wrote: Thank you for going. I'm sorry I couldn't- I had a work commitment that was largely out of my control.

I made comments to my councillor that she had said would be brought up in the committee meeting. I guess that didn't happen. I'm extremely disappointed that the way in which staff enforced the bylaw changed from one year to the next (I still don't know exactly when) with no consultation to guide those changes, and no communication of them after the fact.

As a property owner and a resident who walks around the sidewalks, I feel I have the right to know what is expected of me vis a vis the sidewalks, and what I should expect of the sidewalks.

I agree with you about paying for a study from a third party. A person's opinion about the sidewalks is not relevant if he or she never uses them. My feeling that roads are great doesn't and shouldn't hold a lot of water if I wasn't driving on them. I don't see why this piece of infrastructure should be treated differently than others.

This was mentioned very subtly in the meeting where someone--I cannot remember who--stated that only the messaging was changed, not the actual standard.  This is a very nice way of saying that someone is lying, either staff are lying to council, council is lying to us, or staff are lying to us (or multiple people were were lying to me), because those statements are in direct conflict.
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That's very interesting. That's just not true, and it's offensive that someone would say that.

I'm not too pleased that my councillor would not bring that issue up after telling me she would, but I'm not exactly under the illusion that anyone on council is a strong advocate of mobility anyway.

Still, I think things are backwards. What do they think they're trying to achieve? Surely not clear sidewalks- they won't even talk about what that means.
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(05-14-2019, 12:00 PM)MidTowner Wrote: That's very interesting. That's just not true, and it's offensive that someone would say that.

I'm not too pleased that my councillor would not bring that issue up after telling me she would, but I'm not exactly under the illusion that anyone on council is a strong advocate of mobility anyway.

Still, I think things are backwards. What do they think they're trying to achieve? Surely not clear sidewalks- they won't even talk about what that means.

It may have been her, and she may just be repeating what staff told her.

I do believe that many on council, including the Mayor, and several councillors are strong advocates, but they do not have absolute power.

I agree the focus seems to miss the important metrics, I'm disappointed that staff haven't pushed on that.

They easily could, and probably should, come up with a metric showing that 20% of homeowners don't clear their walks (something we already see) but that 99.9% of city cleared walks do.  Well, frankly, that would stick in the craw of some councillors, but would be pretty damn meaningful.  Of course, if they found the reverse, just to make clear with Scott Davey, that is something I would respect.
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(05-14-2019, 12:48 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: [quote pid='69077' dateline='1557849626']
It may have been her, and she may just be repeating what staff told her.

I do believe that many on council, including the Mayor, and several councillors are strong advocates, but they do not have absolute power.

I agree the focus seems to miss the important metrics, I'm disappointed that staff haven't pushed on that.

They easily could, and probably should, come up with a metric showing that 20% of homeowners don't clear their walks (something we already see) but that 99.9% of city cleared walks do.  Well, frankly, that would stick in the craw of some councillors, but would be pretty damn meaningful.  Of course, if they found the reverse, just to make clear with Scott Davey, that is something I would respect.

[/quote]

Strong advocates of what, exactly? If six including the mayor were strong advocates of clear sidewalks, we would have a system that resulted in sidewalks being cleared.

We all know the only times this past winter that we could be reasonably sure sidewalks would be clear was when the weather allowed for it. I haven't seen any strong advocacy or leadership manifested by council.
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(05-14-2019, 01:01 PM)MidTowner Wrote:
(05-14-2019, 12:48 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: It may have been her, and she may just be repeating what staff told her.

I do believe that many on council, including the Mayor, and several councillors are strong advocates, but they do not have absolute power.

I agree the focus seems to miss the important metrics, I'm disappointed that staff haven't pushed on that.

They easily could, and probably should, come up with a metric showing that 20% of homeowners don't clear their walks (something we already see) but that 99.9% of city cleared walks do.  Well, frankly, that would stick in the craw of some councillors, but would be pretty damn meaningful.  Of course, if they found the reverse, just to make clear with Scott Davey, that is something I would respect.

Strong advocates of what, exactly? If six including the mayor were strong advocates of clear sidewalks, we would have a system that resulted in sidewalks being cleared.

We all know the only times this past winter that we could be reasonably sure sidewalks would be clear was when the weather allowed for it. I haven't seen any strong advocacy or leadership manifested by council.

Actually five voted for Debbie's motion.

You're preaching to the choir on the sidewalks, contrary to the delusions of some on council they were 100% blocked all winter, until the melt happened, I know this because I experienced it also.

I fully support immediately implementing full sidewalk clearing, but I also know that it's unlikely to happen if only a few support it right now, and I recognize that even though those few cannot make it happen now, they are still working towards making things better.
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(05-14-2019, 03:27 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(05-14-2019, 01:01 PM)MidTowner Wrote: Strong advocates of what, exactly? If six including the mayor were strong advocates of clear sidewalks, we would have a system that resulted in sidewalks being cleared.

We all know the only times this past winter that we could be reasonably sure sidewalks would be clear was when the weather allowed for it. I haven't seen any strong advocacy or leadership manifested by council.

Actually five voted for Debbie's motion.

You're preaching to the choir on the sidewalks, contrary to the delusions of some on council they were 100% blocked all winter, until the melt happened, I know this because I experienced it also.

I fully support immediately implementing full sidewalk clearing, but I also know that it's unlikely to happen if only a few support it right now, and I recognize that even though those few cannot make it happen now, they are still working towards making things better.
Is this going to full council on Monday May 27th?
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(05-24-2019, 05:48 PM)dtkmelissa Wrote:
(05-14-2019, 03:27 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Actually five voted for Debbie's motion.

You're preaching to the choir on the sidewalks, contrary to the delusions of some on council they were 100% blocked all winter, until the melt happened, I know this because I experienced it also.

I fully support immediately implementing full sidewalk clearing, but I also know that it's unlikely to happen if only a few support it right now, and I recognize that even though those few cannot make it happen now, they are still working towards making things better.
Is this going to full council on Monday May 27th?

Yes, the committee report is up for approval. One delegate registered already: Maggie Deveau I don't know them.

(I cannot link to the agenda PDF due to CoKs God awful document system):  https://calendar.kitchener.ca/council/De...ty-Council
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(05-24-2019, 05:56 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(05-24-2019, 05:48 PM)dtkmelissa Wrote: Is this going to full council on Monday May 27th?

Yes, the committee report is up for approval. One delegate registered already: Maggie Deveau I don't know them.

(I cannot link to the agenda PDF due to CoKs God awful document system):  https://calendar.kitchener.ca/council/De...ty-Council

Thanks. Just sent in my delegation form Smile
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