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Winter Walking and Cycling
(07-03-2018, 02:53 PM)jamincan Wrote: For what it's worth, this was Scott Davey's response to me:


Quote:Obviously I disagree with your position but I will say I've spent a considerable amount of time researching the issue; I do not rush making decisions.  A pilot project would tell us little more than we could get from the several other municipalities that already offer this service.  They are the pilot.  Before passing judgement on my governance, I would encourage you to spend a some time researching municipalities like London, Guelph etc. that clear snow now, research how long it takes, the quality, how much more salt is used, and how much it costs.  A $760k pilot would be redundant for anyone with internet access and a telephone.  (I spoke with residents from those communities as well.)

Meanwhile what we did do is approve a proactive-bylaw approach which, if enforced strictly, has the potential to have sidewalks cleared far more quickly, and at a fraction of the cost.  And we'll only be punishing those that aren't doing their job, rather than punishing everyone with significant tax hike.  Will it work?  We don't know for sure yet, but we should at least *try* the potentially fastest-service/lowest-cost option before spending money that could be put to much better use.


I think he makes a legitimate point; there's little point in spending money researching the issue; there are plenty of municipalities we can look to for examples. I draw different conclusions from that than him, though; I've lived in municipalities which clear sidewalks, and the service was reasonably quick and sidewalks were cleared well. If it can be done elsewhere, surely it can be done in Kitchener too.

I certainly don't disagree with this point, but there are a few things I'd add. First, never underestimate "not invented here syndrome". It seems especially aggressive (even terminal) in governments. Second, a pilot *would* allow politicians to see how people here respond. Yes, we may be the same people as those from London, but people in London are not considering transitioning from one system to another. That's unique to us, at this moment (or would have been). Third, we are limited by what data is gathered in London, i.e., when staff made the comparison, they only looked at complaints, which I don't feel the need to explain are an entirely useless point of comparison.

I will also add that I lived in London. I complained about sidewalk clearing there, because I was ignorant and lacked perspective, as I suspect the VAST majority of people in all cities do. Our sidewalk occasionally took 2 days to clear after a storm. I thought that was terrible. Of course, I now have more perspective and would adopt London's LOS in a second. Of course, I also wouldn't be opposed to improving London's LOS in some ways as well.

Quote:I personally think that the proactive-bylaw approach is just punting the issue down the road a few years. I don't know the ins and outs of city policy when it comes to by-law enforcement, but I think the evidence is clear that there are any number of by-laws that it is simply not worth their while to enforce. They don't need more people to ticket people parking in bike lanes or not clearing the sidewalk. Compare how rigorously Waterloo enforces the overnight parking ban, a by-law that has little effect on most residents. https://www.therecord.com/news-story/678...ot-spots-/

Not sure what your point here is, but a friend of mine has an interesting opinion, that federally (or provincially) a requirement should be passed that any bylaw passed by the city must come with resources, and a plan for first, enforcing that bylaw uniformly and fairly in the city, and second, a method of assessing the effectiveness of the bylaw.
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Quote:Not sure what your point here is, but a friend of mine has an interesting opinion, that federally (or provincially) a requirement should be passed that any bylaw passed by the city must come with resources, and a plan for first, enforcing that bylaw uniformly and fairly in the city, and second, a method of assessing the effectiveness of the bylaw.

I like this a lot. I have no faith in bylaw enforcement after the "no turning until pedestrians clear the intersection" bylaw was introduced a couple of years ago, and after years of seeing backyard fire bylaws largely being used by people to punish neighbours they don't like. I respect that it's hard to enforce a lot of bylaws, but that makes me question why they exist, and a policy like this would could clear a lot of crufty old stuff out of the system. 

I wish actual efficiency were meaningfully incentivized, but I can't even imagine what that sort of incentive would look like. The only metrics that seem to matter are job counts and tax rates, and efficiency doesn't meaningfully correlate to either.
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Of course, not all federal or provincial legislation is effectively enforced, either ...
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This is very true.
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They could make this a component of volunteer hours that HS students need to do before passing. Bonus points if the region paid small sums of money for it.
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(07-03-2018, 03:41 PM)robdrimmie Wrote: I have no faith in bylaw enforcement after the "no turning until pedestrians clear the intersection" bylaw was introduced a couple of years ago

I don't think I've heard of this one. And I didn't know that cities could make by-laws like that.
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(07-04-2018, 10:13 AM)timc Wrote:
(07-03-2018, 03:41 PM)robdrimmie Wrote: I have no faith in bylaw enforcement after the "no turning until pedestrians clear the intersection" bylaw was introduced a couple of years ago

I don't think I've heard of this one. And I didn't know that cities could make by-laws like that.

I didn't think it was a bylaw, but part of the HTA...unless there is another one which applies to intersections that I don't know about (the section of the HTA applies only to PXOs, not crosswalks--welcome to the insanity that is the Ontario HTA).
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I thought maybe it was the one about PXOs.
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Only level 2 crossovers, not all crosswalks or intersections. In Alberta, it's stop for pedestrians while on the road, regardless of place of crossing.

I recall crossing mid block in Calgary once and the cars were stopped before even setting foot on the road.
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You are all correct! I thought it was a bylaw for all intersections, but it is HTA for level 2 crossovers. Thank you for helping me realize that.

I still don't have much faith that bylaw enforcement is effective but I will need better examples of disillusionment from now on.
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