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(08-02-2021, 11:25 AM)ac3r Wrote: Yes, the population of the region as a whole, not just downtown. I guess it's complicated by the fact that we are 3 cities that all have their own downtown areas, so things aren't as centralized. London, for example, is much smaller than we are but their downtown feels a lot more bustling.
To me, downtown Kitchener is still lacking things that are not restaurants or a handful of other attractions. I go downtown very often, but it's easy to run out of things to do. I can only go to things like KWAG, the library, Apollo Cinema, walk around the streets or go to restaurants before I'm burning money to eat out. Things are changing for sure, but to draw more people down there for things other than getting lunch or dinner. We need more cultural and artistic things open up, more shops that can attract people downtown (I mean...is there even a clothing store?), more live music venues, clubs, recreation, community spaces (whether it's for youth, LGBTQ+, new migrants or "normal people"), something like a conference centre etc.
Instead of continuously complaining why not work towards creating the things that you'd like to see downtown?
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(08-02-2021, 11:45 AM)Jefferson Wrote: Instead of continuously complaining why not work towards creating the things that you'd like to see downtown?
I'm not sure what you mean by this. I work in architecture and urbanism, it's already my job to create things to transform this city. I'm happy to say I've done a lot already, but I'm still allowed to criticize what we still lack.
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(08-02-2021, 11:25 AM)ac3r Wrote: Yes, the population of the region as a whole, not just downtown. I guess it's complicated by the fact that we are 3 cities that all have their own downtown areas, so things aren't as centralized. London, for example, is much smaller than we are but their downtown feels a lot more bustling.
To me, downtown Kitchener is still lacking things that are not restaurants or a handful of other attractions. I go downtown very often, but it's easy to run out of things to do. I can only go to things like KWAG, the library, Apollo Cinema, walk around the streets or go to restaurants before I'm burning money to eat out. Things are changing for sure, but to draw more people down there for things other than getting lunch or dinner. We need more cultural and artistic things open up, more shops that can attract people downtown (I mean...is there even a clothing store?), more live music venues, clubs, recreation, community spaces (whether it's for youth, LGBTQ+, new migrants or "normal people"), something like a conference centre etc. Well, there was a clothing store and a shoe store downtown for many years, but they closed a few years ago. If you look at historical pictures, the downtown was the main shopping district. Then they built the suburban malls, which hollowed out the downtowns of many small cities. It will take a few years for retailers to discover how to serve the new residents that will be filling the new buildings downtown.
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08-02-2021, 01:54 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2021, 02:00 PM by ac3r.)
(08-02-2021, 01:40 PM)Acitta Wrote: Well, there was a clothing store and a shoe store downtown for many years, but they closed a few years ago. If you look at historical pictures, the downtown was the main shopping district. Then they built the suburban malls, which hollowed out the downtowns of many small cities. It will take a few years for retailers to discover how to serve the new residents that will be filling the new buildings downtown.
Yeah, it used to be a popular place. There was a good video clip posted on Reddit a couple weeks ago filmed around the 1950 or 1960s if I remember correctly. There were people everywhere. It was fascinating to see. In fact, King Street was pedestrianized in this video clip so there were people walking down the streets, sitting around chatting and going in and out of shops. But then yes, as you said, suburban malls and changes in urban planning really altered things.
I often wonder how well chain stores would fare downtown these days. Independent businesses are one thing and they are commonly tenants you see take up shop in downtowns, but larger cities also attract chain stores. I'd be curious to see if stores you commonly see in malls - Forever 21, Sephora, Paragon, Roots, H&M and so on - would have success downtown Kitchener yet. Not that I want to see downtown have the same things our malls do, but these are popular stores and could attract everyday people down there.
I'll try to find the video clip I'm talking about, it was interesting to see. Edit: Found it! It was definitely the main shopping district in the city back then: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mf4eoibcrz2p65...r.mp4?dl=0
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(08-02-2021, 01:54 PM)ac3r Wrote: (08-02-2021, 01:40 PM)Acitta Wrote: Well, there was a clothing store and a shoe store downtown for many years, but they closed a few years ago. If you look at historical pictures, the downtown was the main shopping district. Then they built the suburban malls, which hollowed out the downtowns of many small cities. It will take a few years for retailers to discover how to serve the new residents that will be filling the new buildings downtown.
Yeah, it used to be a popular place. There was a good video clip posted on Reddit a couple weeks ago filmed around the 1950 or 1960s if I remember correctly. There were people everywhere. It was fascinating to see. In fact, King Street was pedestrianized in this video clip so there were people walking down the streets, sitting around chatting and going in and out of shops. But then yes, as you said, suburban malls and changes in urban planning really altered things.
I often wonder how well chain stores would fare downtown these days. Independent businesses are one thing and they are commonly tenants you see take up shop in downtowns, but larger cities also attract chain stores. I'd be curious to see if stores you commonly see in malls - Forever 21, Sephora, Paragon, Roots, H&M and so on - would have success downtown Kitchener yet. Not that I want to see downtown have the same things our malls do, but these are popular stores and could attract everyday people down there.
I'll try to find the video clip I'm talking about, it was interesting to see. Edit: Found it! It was definitely the main shopping district in the city back then: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mf4eoibcrz2p65...r.mp4?dl=0 It seems doubtful that the big chains would open stores in the downtown. Their stores in the malls are easy to get to by transit, and they may not have enough of a market to open more stores. People are not going to go downtown for what they can already find in the malls, especially suburban people with cars. It is better to have unique independents and stores from smaller specialized chains.
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(08-01-2021, 02:50 PM)Pac3r Wrote: Condos, hipster grocery stores and cafes aren't enough to make the atmosphere of downtown Kitchener any more lively or unique than it is. The problem is that what currently exists downtown almost exclusively caters to the 9 to 5 crowd and there are very, very, very few reasons for "normal" people (aka anyone not living down there) to go downtown for anything, let alone outside of business hours. There's an art gallery, boring museum and a vaguely niche theatre that make it unique, but that's about it. Everything else downtown exists much more plentifully and conveniently (i.e. business hours) in the rest of the city. Until there are enough interesting shops and...well, basically anything to do downtown, it's always going to have this weird vibe made up of people getting lunch then disappearing and various riff raff roaming the streets asking for spare change or cigarettes. 620'000+ people living here and the main urban district doesn't even have a grocery store...
(08-02-2021, 07:51 AM)Spokes Wrote: I think ac3r was commenting on the population of WR as a whole.
Anyways, pre-pandemic there was definitely a big 9-5 population that is now missing
(08-02-2021, 01:54 PM)ac3r Wrote: (08-02-2021, 01:40 PM)Acitta Wrote: Well, there was a clothing store and a shoe store downtown for many years, but they closed a few years ago. If you look at historical pictures, the downtown was the main shopping district. Then they built the suburban malls, which hollowed out the downtowns of many small cities. It will take a few years for retailers to discover how to serve the new residents that will be filling the new buildings downtown.
Yeah, it used to be a popular place. There was a good video clip posted on Reddit a couple weeks ago filmed around the 1950 or 1960s if I remember correctly. There were people everywhere. It was fascinating to see. In fact, King Street was pedestrianized in this video clip so there were people walking down the streets, sitting around chatting and going in and out of shops. But then yes, as you said, suburban malls and changes in urban planning really altered things.
....
I'll try to find the video clip I'm talking about, it was interesting to see. Edit: Found it! It was definitely the main shopping district in the city back then: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mf4eoibcrz2p65...r.mp4?dl=0 Those among us of (ahem) a certain age will recall a time when DTK was not only popular, but popular with all classes of people. Until well into the 1960s, people “dressed” to go downtown.
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I really hope the community steps up and supports Marche Leo's in DTK. They've taken a tremendous risk setting up shop in DTK and it would be nice if DTK can show that it's able to support these sorts of higher end retailers.
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08-03-2021, 09:58 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-03-2021, 09:59 PM by ac3r.)
I'm sure they're fine for those who can afford to set foot in the store. As for whether it will be a success for the rest of the people living downtown - those who get groceries from Dollarama and wait for specials at Central - will be another thing to see.
In either case, it's a new business. I welcome them and wish them success, even if the store looks like something a 14 year old who has watched too much MTV Cribs designed lol.
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(08-03-2021, 09:58 PM)ac3r Wrote: I'm sure they're fine for those who can afford to set foot in the store. As for whether it will be a success for the rest of the people living downtown - those who get groceries from Dollarama and wait for specials at Central - will be another thing to see.
Marche Leo's won't be cheap, but it's not just for the 1% either: most people working in tech will have no trouble affording their products. Yes, it's not for people who are shopping for food at Dollarama, but then neither is Vincenzo's -- or Zehrs or Sobeys.
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In case there was any doubt about them being the same company, https://www.marcheleos.com/ (Marcheleo's branded) has been updated to list 276 King St W as a location.
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I walked by this morning and noticed Marche Leo's is now stocking perishables, coolers full of tubs of salad and so on. They've gotta be opening within the next few days I'd think.
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If they’re on the usual supermarket weekly cycle, they’ll open on Friday.
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08-12-2021, 08:25 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-12-2021, 08:31 PM by taylortbb.)
Marche Leo's opened sometime today. Hours are apparently until 8pm M-F, 6pm Saturday, 5pm Sunday. I'd definitely prefer some later hours, but it's a start.
Store was quiet, but they weren't advertising at all they were open. A steady stream of people seemed to be wandering in though.
Prices were of course high, but not so high I won't shop there again. Still cheaper than Instacart from a suburban store.
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(08-12-2021, 08:25 PM)taylortbb Wrote: Marche Leo's opened sometime today. Hours are apparently until 8pm M-F, 6pm Saturday, 5pm Sunday. I'd definitely prefer some later hours, but it's a start.
Store was quiet, but they weren't advertising at all they were open. A steady stream of people seemed to be wandering in though.
Prices were of course high, but not so high I won't shop there again. Still cheaper than Instacart from a suburban store.
8 PM is still better than SDM's current 6 PM closing time. Maybe later we can see them be open longer.
We dropped in for some supplementary shopping this evening, and it's basically what I would expect from a "nice" urban supermarket: it has a decent selection of fresh fruit and vegetables, a meat counter, a flower shop and pretty much all the essentials. Certainly, a far more practical product selection than J&P ever had.
We did pick up some fresh okra (nice, didn't expect them to carry that), I saw organic olive oils, FinnCrisp crackers, different fresh salsas and a variety of hummus. I can't speak as to the meat prices as we rarely buy any, but for the rest it seems to be pretty close to what you would pay* at Zehrs or Sobeys -- very similar to what I would expect an urban version of one of those two to charge.
*Supermarkets, of course, have things on sale regularly for a lower price. Nothing on sale at Marche Leo's as of today, but I don't expect this to be the case for the long term.
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