(Eaton) Lofts at 276

[tomh009]

The reserve fund studies and the 30-year requirement did not come into play until the act was proclaimed in 2001. And there might have been a transition period, too. Prior to that, many condos had reserve funds but they were not regulated, and many of them would have been insufficient to meet the current 30-year requirement.

As a comparison point, Quebec condo fees look tiny compared to Ontario condo fees. I don't think there's a similar requirement in Quebec.

Quebec does require a contingency fund, but the rules are less rigorous, I believe a condo building can get away with 5% of the condo fees. In Ontario, if you're looking at a new or well-run building, the reserve contributions will be around 20% of the total, which is indeed more but not enough to explain the difference (the Ontario fees are a multiple of 2-2.5x of Quebec ones). However, the 5% is guaranteed to be insufficient for any kind of major repairs.

So, what else can be (substantially) less expensive in La Belle Provence?

• Hydro is definitely less expensive -- and this is a big cost in the summer (AC)
  
• Electric heat (at Quebec rates) is significantly less expensive than natural gas
  
• Don't know about water or gas costs 
  
• Smaller/older buildings don't necessarily have elevators or AC, saving utility and maintenance costs
  
• If the building has a unit reserved for an on-site superintendent, that can save cleaning/property management costs
  
• Some buildings do not have an outside property manager; the board will instead be paid (something)
  

In the end, unless the building is mismanaged, it's all about the costs. For some perspective on that, this Montreal condo building has their AGM minutes online:
http://manoir4.com/assemblees_generales.html

[plam]

As a comparison point, Quebec condo fees look tiny compared to Ontario condo fees. I don't think there's a similar requirement in Quebec.

Quebec does require a contingency fund, but the rules are less rigorous, I believe a condo building can get away with 5% of the condo fees. In Ontario, if you're looking at a new or well-run building, the reserve contributions will be around 20% of the total, which is indeed more but not enough to explain the difference (the Ontario fees are a multiple of 2-2.5x of Quebec ones). However, the 5% is guaranteed to be insufficient for any kind of major repairs.

Yeah. I think people are on the hook more often for surprise condo repairs in Quebec. Happens in Ontario sometimes but much less often.

So, what else can be (substantially) less expensive in La Belle Provence?

• Hydro is definitely less expensive -- and this is a big cost in the summer (AC)
  
• Electric heat (at Quebec rates) is significantly less expensive than natural gas
  
• Don't know about water or gas costs 
  
• Smaller/older buildings don't necessarily have elevators or AC, saving utility and maintenance costs
  
• If the building has a unit reserved for an on-site superintendent, that can save cleaning/property management costs
  
• Some buildings do not have an outside property manager; the board will instead be paid (something)
  

In the end, unless the building is mismanaged, it's all about the costs. For some perspective on that, this Montreal condo building has their AGM minutes online:
http://manoir4.com/assemblees_generales.html

Power is cheaper, yes, but some places don't really use much common power or heating (e.g. townhouses). Same with water or gas. In fact we don't pay for any of these things at my place in Waterloo except for a property manager, and it's still over $300/month. Landscaping and waste are a significant chunk. Some insurance. I usually look at the financials, but haven't this year.

For that one that you posted, the reserve fund certainly is taking a much smaller percentage of the revenues than I see at my place. But they also have much more services like a swimming pool (which in itself is surprisingly cheap).

[tomh009]

Power is cheaper, yes, but some places don't really use much common power or heating (e.g. townhouses). Same with water or gas. In fact we don't pay for any of these things at my place in Waterloo except for a property manager, and it's still over $300/month. Landscaping and waste are a significant chunk. Some insurance. I usually look at the financials, but haven't this year.

For that one that you posted, the reserve fund certainly is taking a much smaller percentage of the revenues than I see at my place. But they also have much more services like a swimming pool (which in itself is surprisingly cheap).

At our building in Kitchener, without a pool or a concierge/on-site security, we spend roughly ...

• 27% on utilities (hydro, water, gas)
  
• 26% on reserve contributions
  
• 22% on building maintenance, landscaping and snow removal
  
• 18% on property management and cleaning
  

[danbrotherston]

The reserve fund studies and the 30-year requirement did not come into play until the act was proclaimed in 2001. And there might have been a transition period, too. Prior to that, many condos had reserve funds but they were not regulated, and many of them would have been insufficient to meet the current 30-year requirement.

As a comparison point, Quebec condo fees look tiny compared to Ontario condo fees. I don't think there's a similar requirement in Quebec.

That is interesting, I had no idea it was so recent.

That being said, the situation without a reserve is not sustainable right? I wouldn't buy a condo that didn't have a healthy reserve fund. What happens when they need a new roof? That's just a recipie for a bad time.

[ijmorlan]

That being said, the situation without a reserve is not sustainable right? I wouldn't buy a condo that didn't have a healthy reserve fund. What happens when they need a new roof? That's just a recipie for a bad time.

Special assessment time! Condo fees are definitely something you do not want to be low without understanding exactly why they are low.

[mastermind]

I had a co-op job once helping do these reserve fund studies.  They're quite in depth.  We would go to condominiums and look at every common element, calculate quantities, estimate the age and replacement date and cost of each, project ahead 30 years and then figure out what the reserve fund contributions need to be to pay for it all.  

Most were buildings from the 70's or 80's still on their original roof, windows, and parking lot, and these three items were almost always in really bad shape.  The recommended increase in reserve fund contributions in order to pay for them was usually quite steep.  I imagine it would not be fun to be on a condo board and be the recipient of one of those reports.

I mean, I don't know what the history on those buildings are, but hasn't it always been the case that those replacements were known and planned for? Certainly costs have increased beyond the planned increases, but they shouldn't be totally out of line.

I think they're probably way out of line because condo boards are not necessarily run by people who have any experiencing managing/maintaining a building.  There are a lot of condos out there run by people who's careers and expertise's are in a completely different field.

It's probably easy to see a few hundred grand sitting in an account and think there's lots, especially when the building is new / newer.  And if you're not in touch with what construction costs, or if you've never had something like your windows quoted, or are still thinking your roof replacement might cost 'the same as last time', you're in for a big surprise.  Suddenly a few hundred grand is a drop in the bucket.

[danbrotherston]

I mean, I don't know what the history on those buildings are, but hasn't it always been the case that those replacements were known and planned for? Certainly costs have increased beyond the planned increases, but they shouldn't be totally out of line.

I think they're probably way out of line because condo boards are not necessarily run by people who have any experiencing managing/maintaining a building.  There are a lot of condos out there run by people who's careers and expertise's are in a completely different field.

It's probably easy to see a few hundred grand sitting in an account and think there's lots, especially when the building is new / newer.  And if you're not in touch with what construction costs, or if you've never had something like your windows quoted, or are still thinking your roof replacement might cost 'the same as last time', you're in for a big surprise.  Suddenly a few hundred grand is a drop in the bucket.

This is why there are studies. I don't understand how a condo could operate without doing engineering studies.

[CedarHillAlum]

When is this thread going back to being about Eaton Lofts?

[ac3r]

Not much to say about them since they're done. All that's left is the grocery store on the ground floor.

[taylortbb]

Permit No 21-115593
Permit Description Permit is for interior alterations to create a restaurant in unit #3.

Looks like Perimeter is having some real success filling in the retail units here. This will be on the Water St side. For context, Marche Leo's is unit 1, the corner is unit 2, and Crafty Ramen is unit 5. Unit 3 is pretty small, this has to be a cafe or takeout spot.

The fact the permit is just for "a restaurant" is interesting. Normally the name of the business is included, and only time that I've seen it not be in DTK was for Starbucks (which also said "a restaurant"). Maybe another large chain that's looking to keep their new locations quiet?

[jeffster]

Permit No 21-115593
Permit Description Permit is for interior alterations to create a restaurant in unit #3.

Looks like Perimeter is having some real success filling in the retail units here. This will be on the Water St side. For context, Marche Leo's is unit 1, the corner is unit 2, and Craft Ramen is unit 5. Unit 3 is pretty small, this has to be a cafe or takeout spot.

The fact the permit is just for "a restaurant" is interesting. Normally the name of the business is included, and only time that I've seen it not be in DTK was for Starbucks (which also said "a restaurant"). Maybe another large chain that's looking to keep their new locations quiet?

What would people like to see in that unit? What chain is missing from DTK that would be a great boost? Or what type of food is missing?

[tomh009]

Permit No 21-115593
Permit Description Permit is for interior alterations to create a restaurant in unit #3.

Looks like Perimeter is having some real success filling in the retail units here. This will be on the Water St side. For context, Marche Leo's is unit 1, the corner is unit 2, and Crafty Ramen is unit 5. Unit 3 is pretty small, this has to be a cafe or takeout spot.

This is good. It has been slow going, but it's good to see that they are finally starting to fill it in.

[GtwoK]

Looks like Perimeter is having some real success filling in the retail units here. This will be on the Water St side. For context, Marche Leo's is unit 1, the corner is unit 2, and Craft Ramen is unit 5. Unit 3 is pretty small, this has to be a cafe or takeout spot.

The fact the permit is just for "a restaurant" is interesting. Normally the name of the business is included, and only time that I've seen it not be in DTK was for Starbucks (which also said "a restaurant"). Maybe another large chain that's looking to keep their new locations quiet?

What would people like to see in that unit? What chain is missing from DTK that would be a great boost? Or what type of food is missing?

I can't speak to the size of the space but I'd KILL for a Five Guys in the region. I've driven right out to Guelph multiple times for that. I know Union Burger would literally be across the street, but let's be honest, Union Burger is awful. We're missing a GOOD fast food burger place downtown.

[tomh009]

Marche Leo's reno is making progress but it's hard to imagine them opening before the end of June, at least.

[taylortbb]

Marche Leo's interior is getting close to complete, with shelving and checkouts installed. They're starting to clean up construction debris and remove protective packaging/coverings. They also have a now hiring sign up outside.