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2015 Federal Election
#31
(10-11-2015, 02:59 PM)Coke6pk Wrote: I can assure you that these cards are used after the fact.  Stats for local office are collected from them, then they are sent to Stats Can who takes the data from them.  
So there are "masses of asses" transcribing info from these forms into a database? Huh

Quote:As well, as a legal signed document, they are used as physical evidence in cases of smuggling/criminal activity by the officer performing enforcement action.
I can certainly understand how a written declaration can be used against someone who's caught at the border in an act of smuggling. But how can these forms be used after the individual has been cleared to enter Canada?
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#32
(10-11-2015, 05:27 PM)Canard Wrote:
(10-11-2015, 02:07 PM)Osiris Wrote:

Thank you, I think that was the most helpful explanation against electronic voting, and I see what you're getting at now.

Who on this thread is advocating for electronic voting?
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#33
(10-11-2015, 10:15 PM)ookpik Wrote: Who on this thread is advocating for electronic voting?

I guess that would be me, I asked why we were still required to vote on paper and have stuff written down by hand.  I thought it would be a lot faster if it was all computerized, and several people replied with their answers.

I guess one thing I might argue against those who are against electronic voting, is "Do you store money in a bank?" "Do you use online banking?" Because that is pretty much the same thing, isn't it? It has to be secure.
For daily ion construction updates, photos and general urban rail news, follow me on twitter! @Canardiain
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#34
Quote:I guess one thing I might argue against those who are against electronic voting, is "Do you store money in a bank?"  "Do you use online banking?"  Because that is pretty much the same thing, isn't it?  It has to be secure.

As previously mentioned, banking is not secret from the bank. Imagine if the bank needed to know what all the transactions were but not who posted them. This is the fundamental tug-of-war that makes evoting so difficult a problem to solve.

Computer assistance can be really helpful, though. Maybe we need a hybrid approach where we keep the visual inspection of the ID by a human, but then confirm your attendance on an electronic roll, then give you a paper ballot? That could reduce the number of people behind the table and speed things up like those self-serve cashier tills.
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#35
Estonia has had Internet voting available since 2005.  While there are risks (as outlined in the video, although the video is focused on voting machines), there has so far been no evidence of fraud.  Roughly 30% of the voters are voting by Internet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic...in_Estonia
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#36
(10-12-2015, 09:40 AM)tomh009 Wrote: Estonia has had Internet voting available since 2005.  While there are risks (as outlined in the video, although the video is focused on voting machines), there has so far been no evidence of fraud.  Roughly 30% of the voters are voting by Internet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic...in_Estonia

It helps that they're the world leaders in cyber security after properly investing in the infrastructure for so long.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-poster-...er-attack/
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#37
Advance polls busy all weekend in Waterloo Region 
Quote:Local voters joined the estimated 1.6 million people who cast advance votes Friday and Saturday, according to Elections Canada. That's an estimated 34 per cent increase over the first two days of advance polling in the 2011 federal vote when about 1.2 million people cast ballots...

While the Kitchener Centre poll staff managed to keep the lines reasonable, there were reports of long waits at others. "Some were having an hour-long wait," LePage said.

Another possible factor that added to delays at advance polls:
Quote:With fewer advance poll locations, she said, voter lists are condensed so more people are voting in one location than on an election day.
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#38
(10-11-2015, 10:14 PM)ookpik Wrote:
(10-11-2015, 02:59 PM)Coke6pk Wrote: I can assure you that these cards are used after the fact.  Stats for local office are collected from them, then they are sent to Stats Can who takes the data from them.  
So there are "masses of asses" transcribing info from these forms into a database?  Huh

Quote:As well, as a legal signed document, they are used as physical evidence in cases of smuggling/criminal activity by the officer performing enforcement action.
I can certainly understand how a written declaration can be used against someone who's caught at the border in an act of smuggling. But how can these forms be used after the individual has been cleared to enter Canada?

(a) Masses of CPU's.Smile They are scanned and optically read.  I don't work for Stats Can, so I have no idea what information they gather.

(b) CBSA issues penalties for lots of different things.  For example, undeclared food.  That's not a criminal charge, but a financial penalty can be assessed.  The traveller can enter Canada, and the card would be held for an appeal of such a penalty.  Same goes for declaration amounts, currency seizure, etc.  Local ports use some statistical data from the card for mandatory reports.  The majority of travellers, your right, the card isn't kept beyond a few days... and that's just because they stuff the envelopes before they go to StatsCan.
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#39
(10-12-2015, 05:20 PM)Osiris Wrote:
(10-12-2015, 09:40 AM)tomh009 Wrote: Estonia has had Internet voting available since 2005.  While there are risks (as outlined in the video, although the video is focused on voting machines), there has so far been no evidence of fraud.  Roughly 30% of the voters are voting by Internet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic...in_Estonia

It helps that they're the world leaders in cyber security after properly investing in the infrastructure for so long.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-poster-...er-attack/

Absolutely.  We could learn some things from them ...
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#40
The bit where the Wikipedia entry says that the system has been audited and was found to be easily corruptible worries me. Sorta like saying the only reason Estonia's elections _haven't_ been rigged is because no one's cared enough to try.

And even with Internet Voting, Estonia's still only getting 30% participation. A panacea for low voter turnout it isn't.

Perhaps we should pull an Australia and mandate voting? 93.21% turnout in 2010.

While we're there, maybe we can also ape their single-transferable vote and proportionally-elected Senate?
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#41
(10-13-2015, 09:59 AM)chutten Wrote: The bit where the Wikipedia entry says that the system has been audited and was found to be easily corruptible worries me. Sorta like saying the only reason Estonia's elections _haven't_ been rigged is because no one's cared enough to try.

And even with Internet Voting, Estonia's still only getting 30% participation. A panacea for low voter turnout it isn't.

Perhaps we should pull an Australia and mandate voting? 93.21% turnout in 2010.

While we're there, maybe we can also ape their single-transferable vote and proportionally-elected Senate?

64.2% turnout (30.5% of those were over the Internet):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_p...tion,_2015

Assuming there is a change of government next week, I think some kind of change to our first-past-the-post system is likely, whether STV, preference, proportional or some hybrid (some countries elect part of the parliament by proportional representation, but still have first-past-the-post ridings for the remaining seats).  I do believe any substantial senate reform (read: not appointed) would need a constitutional amendment, though.
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#42
Liberals way in the lead now.

Here's a neat thought I haven't seen addressed. The Liberals will move to change toward MPP or P3 or some other kind of voting system other than First past the Post. This would mean for example in the 2011 election, the Green Party would have won 12 seats, instead of 1.

So if you are thinking of voting Green, consider voting Liberal just this time around, and then vote Green next time and it will actually count!
For daily ion construction updates, photos and general urban rail news, follow me on twitter! @Canardiain
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#43
(10-16-2015, 08:33 AM)Canard Wrote: Liberals way in the lead now.

Here's a neat thought I haven't seen addressed. The Liberals will move to change toward MPP or P3 or some other kind of voting system other than First past the Post. This would mean for example in the 2011 election, the Green Party would have won 12 seats, instead of 1.

So if you are thinking of voting Green, consider voting Liberal just this time around, and then vote Green next time and it will actually count!

The danger with this is that, if the Liberal Party winds up winning a majority (I am not going to speculate on the likelihood of this, but it is no longer outside of the realm of possibility with their polling numbers), there is no chance for electoral reform any time soon.

Edit: Really, if your overriding concern is electoral reform, you'd be most interested in making sure we see a coalition government between the second and third parties, and should be voting for whichever party is polling third to prevent anyone from obtaining a majority. Mostly I think voters should get to know their candidates, and vote for the most component...
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#44
(10-16-2015, 08:46 AM)MidTowner Wrote: Edit: Really, if your overriding concern is electoral reform, you'd be most interested in making sure we see a coalition government between the second and third parties, and should be voting for whichever party is polling third to prevent anyone from obtaining a majority. Mostly I think voters should get to know their candidates, and vote for the most component...

Except that we're in Canada. First-past-the-post with a single x on the ballot means that we're voting more _against_ a party than _for_ an individual. And party politics means that the individual matters so much less than the colour of the sign behind them.

Electoral reform'll help with the first part. A simple switch to Single-transferable vote would mean we could finally state our preferences verbosely on our ballots. Why Ontario had to try for MMP and why M. Dion had to advocate a completely fresh idea is beyond me...

I'm really hoping for a minority government. Co-operation and compromise, taking into account multiple different points of view... what's more Canadian than that?
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#45
(10-16-2015, 08:46 AM)MidTowner Wrote:
(10-16-2015, 08:33 AM)Canard Wrote: Liberals way in the lead now.

Here's a neat thought I haven't seen addressed. The Liberals will move to change toward MPP or P3 or some other kind of voting system other than First past the Post. This would mean for example in the 2011 election, the Green Party would have won 12 seats, instead of 1.

So if you are thinking of voting Green, consider voting Liberal just this time around, and then vote Green next time and it will actually count!

The danger with this is that, if the Liberal Party winds up winning a majority (I am not going to speculate on the likelihood of this, but it is no longer outside of the realm of possibility with their polling numbers), there is no chance for electoral reform any time soon.

Edit: Really, if your overriding concern is electoral reform, you'd be most interested in making sure we see a coalition government between the second and third parties, and should be voting for whichever party is polling third to prevent anyone from obtaining a majority. Mostly I think voters should get to know their candidates, and vote for the most component...

I'm not sure how you figure.  It's the Liberal platform that sets out the strongest proposals for Governance/Democratic reform.  I don't know how much stronger the commitment would be under an NDP-supported Liberal minority government.
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