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Shift London
#11
"You're right, that BRT *could* be good, and I think it could even be good without a tunnel, provided we were willing to take the space from single occupant cars and put it towards the BRT, but apparently that just doesn't happen. Of course, this is the goal of the BRT 'advocates'. Basically reduce and diminish until there is nothing left, then point at that and claim transit doesn't work."

BRT is great in many places. To say segregated lanes "just doesn't happen" is wrong- plenty of cities have exceptional BRT. It can be done. It is done.

And I don't see why you bring up this issue in the context of Shift. As it stands now, BRT will run in its own right-of-way. There won't be a tunnel, which means the northern line will be subject to the delays caused by trains, but it will still have its own lanes.
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#12
Get out your umbrella. The great BRT watering down is upon us.

The grade separation would never be axed if it were LRT.
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#13
"Get out your umbrella. The great BRT watering down is upon us.

The grade separation would never be axed if it were LRT."

Grade separation hasn't been axed, has it? Just the Richmond Street tunnel.

Anyway, there are examples of LRTs (both historic and "modern") being made to run in mixed traffic.
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#14
(05-18-2017, 01:40 PM)MidTowner Wrote: "Get out your umbrella. The great BRT watering down is upon us.

The grade separation would never be axed if it were LRT."

Grade separation hasn't been axed, has it? Just the Richmond Street tunnel.

Anyway, there are examples of LRTs (both historic and "modern") being made to run in mixed traffic.

No there aren't.  Any "LRT" running in mixed traffic is legally a streetcar.

Lets not confuse the two.  Our LRT is *not* a streetcar because it lacks the equipment and legal certification to operate in mixed traffic, thus *must* operate in it's own right of way.
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#15
Is that really a legal distinction? Is it defined somewhere that an LRT that might run in mixed traffic for a few blocks of its route is actually called a "streetcar"?

I guess that is one advantage of BRT, though: when needed, it can operate in mixed traffic. Which apparently LRT can't (at least not without having to be called something else).
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#16
Back to Shift, though, Markster claimed that the "grade separation" had been axed. It hasn't. And hopefully it won't be.
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#17
(05-18-2017, 02:26 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(05-18-2017, 01:40 PM)MidTowner Wrote: "Get out your umbrella. The great BRT watering down is upon us.

The grade separation would never be axed if it were LRT."

Grade separation hasn't been axed, has it? Just the Richmond Street tunnel.

Anyway, there are examples of LRTs (both historic and "modern") being made to run in mixed traffic.

No there aren't.  Any "LRT" running in mixed traffic is legally a streetcar.

Lets not confuse the two.  Our LRT is *not* a streetcar because it lacks the equipment and legal certification to operate in mixed traffic, thus *must* operate in it's own right of way.

What “equipment”? Our vehicles are very similar to the new Toronto streetcars. I suppose maybe you mean turn signals and the like? But those could be added easily. Also is there an actual legal distinction between an LRT and a streetcar? If so, please cite the appropriate chapter of the statutes and regulations of Ontario.
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#18
(05-18-2017, 02:48 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:
(05-18-2017, 02:26 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: No there aren't.  Any "LRT" running in mixed traffic is legally a streetcar.

Lets not confuse the two.  Our LRT is *not* a streetcar because it lacks the equipment and legal certification to operate in mixed traffic, thus *must* operate in it's own right of way.

What “equipment”? Our vehicles are very similar to the new Toronto streetcars. I suppose maybe you mean turn signals and the like? But those could be added easily. Also is there an actual legal distinction between an LRT and a streetcar? If so, please cite the appropriate chapter of the statutes and regulations of Ontario.

The chapter requiring things like "turn signals, mirrors, etc.".  And yes, they are "similar" to Toronto's vehicles.  The devil is in the differences though.
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#19
For daily ion construction updates, photos and general urban rail news, follow me on twitter! @Canardiain
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#20
(05-18-2017, 09:19 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(05-18-2017, 02:48 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: What “equipment”? Our vehicles are very similar to the new Toronto streetcars. I suppose maybe you mean turn signals and the like? But those could be added easily. Also is there an actual legal distinction between an LRT and a streetcar? If so, please cite the appropriate chapter of the statutes and regulations of Ontario.

The chapter requiring things like "turn signals, mirrors, etc.".  And yes, they are "similar" to Toronto's vehicles.  The devil is in the differences though.

Ok, thanks, that makes sense. But I don’t think our line would stop being LRT if we added turn signals and mirrors (both at both ends, I suppose) and had some non-dedicated-lane street running. In reality there is no bright line between streetcar and LRT, or for that matter between LRT and regular passenger rail. There is even no bright line between real trains and model trains. But that’s another story…
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