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Grocery Stores
(02-05-2018, 11:30 AM)jgsz Wrote:
(02-05-2018, 11:16 AM)panamaniac Wrote: I haven't had the impression that proximity to an LCBO or Beer Store has much to do with which supermarkets get to sell alcohol.

Highland Hills Mall has a large Brewers Retail and they sell beer and wine at The Real Canadian Superstore.

The Columbia/Fischer-Hallman Sobeys was just awarded the licence and its attached to an LCBO.
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Zehrs Laurentian is across the street from an LCBO. I'm sure lots more examples could be found.
My Twitter: @KevinLMaps
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I am of the opinion that proximity to LCBO or Beer Store are the best spots for the pilot project, especially the Super Centre example where there's like 300m of parking lot separating the two. If the grocery stores are able to sell alcohol when the other stores are that close I think it promotes the idea that people don't value those retail mechanisms, or the government control of alcohol sales they represent.
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That makes me think that I have not seen any figures about the impact to date, if any, on LCBO sales of supermarket alcohol sales. I guess we'll never know if Beer Store sales have be affected ...
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(02-05-2018, 01:23 AM)Elmira Guy Wrote: /\ How so? Not disagreeing with you but asking what  you mean by this.

LCBO sets minimum prices for alcohol products to discourage drinking abuse.  
http://hellolcbo.com/app/answers/detail/...ohol-abuse

I'm not necessarily against the strategy, but it certainly isn't stopping the upper crust from imbibing any.
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(02-05-2018, 11:16 AM)panamaniac Wrote: I haven't had the impression that proximity to an LCBO or Beer Store has much to do with which supermarkets get to sell alcohol.

No, but that proximity might cause the supermarket to decide not to apply for a licence.
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(02-05-2018, 08:09 PM)JoeKW Wrote:
(02-05-2018, 01:23 AM)Elmira Guy Wrote: /\ How so? Not disagreeing with you but asking what  you mean by this.

LCBO sets minimum prices for alcohol products to discourage drinking abuse.  
http://hellolcbo.com/app/answers/detail/...ohol-abuse


I'm not necessarily against the strategy, but it certainly isn't stopping the upper crust from imbibing any.

Are you saying this is a stated and documented goal behind their pricing? The link doesn't actually cite any government source which states such a strategy.

If it is true, I am opposed to such a strategy, even to supposedly combat alcohol abuse. The powers that be certainly have never taken the same approach with regards to tobacco (at least not successfully or for very long) or junk/processed food.
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(02-05-2018, 11:16 AM)panamaniac Wrote: I haven't had the impression that proximity to an LCBO or Beer Store has much to do with which supermarkets get to sell alcohol.

The fact so many recently 'awarded' grocery stores ARE in such proximity to existing LCBO stores.  Doesn't make a lot of sense.

Ok, maybe it does
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The tobacco taxes are indeed quite high in Canada. At least the officially the reason is to discourage smoking.
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(02-05-2018, 10:01 PM)Elmira Guy Wrote:
(02-05-2018, 08:09 PM)JoeKW Wrote: LCBO sets minimum prices for alcohol products to discourage drinking abuse.  
http://hellolcbo.com/app/answers/detail/...ohol-abuse


I'm not necessarily against the strategy, but it certainly isn't stopping the upper crust from imbibing any.

Are you saying this is a stated and documented goal behind their pricing? The link doesn't actually cite any government source which states such a strategy.

If it is true, I am opposed to such a strategy, even to supposedly combat alcohol abuse. The powers that be certainly have never taken the same approach with regards to tobacco (at least not successfully or for very long) or junk/processed food.

This article states it explicitly:  https://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/200..._beer.html

The LCBO doesn't say the same thing however: http://www.lcbo.com/content/lcbo/en/corp...ility.html
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(02-05-2018, 10:14 PM)tomh009 Wrote: The tobacco taxes are indeed quite high in Canada. At least the officially the reason is to discourage smoking.

And it did happen in the context of a governmental anti-tobacco strategy.

Minimum prices: Quebec has minimum and maximum prices for milk, and until 1993, for bread. (Bread price-fixing, courtesy the government). I guess it's less common to see minimum prices in Ontario.
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(02-05-2018, 10:43 PM)plam Wrote:
(02-05-2018, 10:14 PM)tomh009 Wrote: The tobacco taxes are indeed quite high in Canada. At least the officially the reason is to discourage smoking.

And it did happen in the context of a governmental anti-tobacco strategy.

Minimum prices: Quebec has minimum and maximum prices for milk, and until 1993, for bread. (Bread price-fixing, courtesy the government). I guess it's less common to see minimum prices in Ontario.

But tobacco is about the same price it was 25 or so years ago. I don't know if you're old enough to remember (no offense intended), but tobacco prices were brought back down quite severely after black market tobacco really boomed. So much so that the mayor of one of the eastern Ontario border towns (I cannot remember which town) went into hiding for several days due to criminal groups fighting over smuggling tobacco back into Canada.
I ran a variety store at the time, and cigarettes went down over $3/pack, and the price for a pack today is perhaps only 10-15% more than they were in the early 90's.

I'm not saying the LCBO pricing strategy doesn't include a goal of combating alcohol abuse. I'm simply saying I haven't seen anything that convinces me that this is the case.
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(02-05-2018, 10:30 PM)JoeKW Wrote:
(02-05-2018, 10:01 PM)Elmira Guy Wrote: Are you saying this is a stated and documented goal behind their pricing? The link doesn't actually cite any government source which states such a strategy.

If it is true, I am opposed to such a strategy, even to supposedly combat alcohol abuse. The powers that be certainly have never taken the same approach with regards to tobacco (at least not successfully or for very long) or junk/processed food.

This article states it explicitly:  https://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/200..._beer.html

The LCBO doesn't say the same thing however: http://www.lcbo.com/content/lcbo/en/corp...ility.html

From the article;

"But documents obtained under Ontario's freedom-of-information law show that the Ministry of Finance, not the LCBO, pressed for higher beer prices – raising questions about the arm's-length relationship between the two bodies."

This to me is key, as it seems clear to me that the motivation is purely to generate revenue rather than some bizarre and silly notion of social consciousness.

And before anyone snaps at me, I'm not diminishing the seriousness of alcohol abuse, just the idea that alcohol abuse only affects, or is only a problem with, certain income-based demographics.

But I don't think there is any social consciousness involved in the government's decision to raise prices.
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LCBO retail pricing per se is not set in order to promote any specific level of consumption (though one of the stated goals of the retailer is to promote “moderate consumption”). But there are minimum prices that all retailers must abide by, and significant “sin taxes” on alcohol.

The whole purpose of the Liquor Control Board of Ontario is to control alcohol, and try to prevent excessive consumption. Its origins are firmly rooted in the significant temperance movement in Ontario, and our former prohibition regime. I’m not old enough to remember the time before it retooled itself to more resemble a normal retailer, but others I know tell me about when the LCBO issued individual permits, individuals’ purchases were recorded by clerks, and consumers could be restricted explicitly from buying alcohol in any quantity.

It’s different now, obviously, but it’s pretty obvious one of the goals of the monopoly is still to discourage excessive consumption and promote moderate consumption (whatever that might mean).
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(02-06-2018, 12:15 AM)Elmira Guy Wrote:
(02-05-2018, 10:43 PM)plam Wrote: And it did happen in the context of a governmental anti-tobacco strategy.
But tobacco is about the same price it was 25 or so years ago. I don't know if you're old enough to remember (no offense intended), but tobacco prices were brought back down quite severely after black market tobacco really boomed. So much so that the mayor of one of the eastern Ontario border towns (I cannot remember which town) went into hiding for several days due to criminal groups fighting over smuggling tobacco back into Canada.
I ran a variety store at the time, and cigarettes went down over $3/pack, and the price for a pack today is perhaps only 10-15% more than they were in the early 90's.

It seems that cigarettes cost around $10/pack in Ontario (I had to check as I don't smoke):
https://nsra-adnf.ca/wp-content/uploads/..._table.pdf

And $63 of that is taxes -- a far high proportion than for gasoline, for example.  We're not the highest on the global scale but still near the top:
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/co...?itemId=17
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