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Homer Watson and Ottawa Three Lane Roundabouts
#16
(01-22-2015, 10:36 AM)YKF Wrote:
(01-22-2015, 08:39 AM)BuildingScout Wrote: Roundabouts have been for about the last fifteen years the fashionable trend among urban planners. Therefore they are dropped willy-nilly anywhere and everywhere whether they make sense or not.
That's more of a civil engineering/road design concern than an urban planning one.


(01-22-2015, 10:14 AM)jerryhung Wrote: We just need to include roundabout test in Driver License now... or is it already included?
I imagine many people would fail badly...ha

I support roundabouts, but 3-lane may be too crazy for KW people

Roundabouts are part of the driver training curriculum (both in class and the road test portion). I'm unsure as to whether its been incorporated into the licensing test itself. It probably wouldn't hurt, especially in Waterloo Region. 

I've taken the both lessons and the G2 test (because I let in expire the first time whoops) in Kitchener and Brampton.

You skim it essentially if you're learning it in the GTA. I was taking a driving lesson over here in Brampton recently and when I asked about roundabouts, my instructor looked at me like I had a second head. They're planning and have a built a few over here, but mostly on minor arterial/community collectors in the new urbanist suburbs (AKA on the outskirts).

Meanwhile, over here in KW, they're pretty aggressive about making people learn roundabouts. The issue is there isn't any really big ones near the driving centre, just a small one nearby. I only really practiced at the one at Margaret/Union, which is a bump.

I'm sure if you were taking your driving lessons in the south end of Kitchener, you'd probably practice on the big ones.
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#17
During my in-car driver training session, my instructor made me go on the expressway from Fischer Hallman Blvd. to Trussler Rd., at which point he instructed me to drive up Ira. Needles Blvd. until I reached Erb. When I got to Erb, he told me that we were going back to the expressway (along Ira Needles, obviously). For a new driver, I got quite the fix of roundabouts that day.

As an aside, after the Ira Needles adventure came the endless one-way streets of Uptown Waterloo.
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#18
(01-22-2015, 08:39 AM)BuildingScout Wrote: Roundabouts have been for about the last fifteen years the fashionable trend among urban planners. Therefore they are dropped willy-nilly anywhere and everywhere whether they make sense or not.

I think you should say ... been around in the Waterloo Region.  They've been around far longer than that in general.

I've lived in England and Holland, where roundabouts are extremely common for small city streets through to interchanges on larger 2-3 lane streets.  They work there and are not contentious.

I think here it is a matter of education and experience.... for the users and the city planners.  God knows a badly planned round about is worse than any of its alternatives Smile.
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#19
The problem is that existing drivers really don't get any education about how to deal with them. If the police were to do some sort of enforcement campaign, you could tv and radio stations talking about it, people might talk about it at the water cooler and so on, and then people might actually start to be conscientious of what they are doing in a roundabout because there may actually be consequences for not following the rules.
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#20
(01-23-2015, 08:25 AM)jamincan Wrote: The problem is that existing drivers really don't get any education about how to deal with them. If the police were to do some sort of enforcement campaign, you could tv and radio stations talking about it, people might talk about it at the water cooler and so on, and then people might actually start to be conscientious of what they are doing in a roundabout because there may actually be consequences for not following the rules.

The issue with that is the MTO refuses to standardize any regulations regarding their use, so there's no consensus across jurisdictions on what is the proper way to behave near a roundabout.
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#21
(01-23-2015, 09:05 AM)timio Wrote: The issue with that is the MTO refuses to standardize any regulations regarding their use...
Why is that? What are they waiting for (some threshold in deaths and injuries)?

Shouldn't such standardization and promulgation be in their mandate?
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#22
From The Record


Quote:WATERLOO REGION — Are you baffled by roundabouts? Don't look to Ontario traffic law — it says nothing about them.


That's OK with Transportation Minister Glen Murray, who refuses to write roundabout rules into the Highway Traffic Act even as driving practices differ.  "I am confident the act already provides the necessary guidance to drivers in roundabouts," Murray recently wrote, rejecting a roundabout law proposed by Kitchener-Conestoga MPP Michael Harris.
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#23
I realize that. I even linked to Harris' bill above. What baffles me is why MTO is feeding this nonsense to their minister.
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#24
(01-23-2015, 08:17 AM)REnerd Wrote:
(01-22-2015, 08:39 AM)BuildingScout Wrote: Roundabouts have been for about the last fifteen years the fashionable trend among urban planners. Therefore they are dropped willy-nilly anywhere and everywhere whether they make sense or not.

I think you should say ... been around in the Waterloo Region.  They've been around far longer than that in general.

While they have been around for very long, outside of England they were frowned upon from the late 70s until the early 90s.


In the late 90s we saw a revival both in Europe and NorthAmerica, first slowly and now raising to the present state where city municipalities are building them in intersections where they are not a clear win over a standard traffic light.
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#25
In the graphic at the head of this thread, traffic sometimes backs up down the on-ramp to the Connestoga parkway (lower right corner)... what happens if it backs up into (and through) the roundabout? Will it come to a standstill and jam up? I can't think of a scenario in the Region where that's happened before - maybe sometimes along Ira Needles?
For daily ion construction updates, photos and general urban rail news, follow me on twitter! @Canardiain
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#26
There's a clear advantage for roundabouts: way less people die in collisions when they happen. They also happen to cost a lot less over the life of the intersection. I don't care if people have to wait at rush hour, it's always going to be like that if people insist on living the suburban car-culture life. The expressway is still packed at rush hour even though they've been adding lanes like crazy. I've been driving down H-W to get to the expressway or Hamilton when I have to work and it's pretty smooth sailing even through that "horrible" roundabout at Block Line. All the other intersections are places I've had more close calls with assholes that insist on running yellows and red lights.
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#27
(01-23-2015, 07:41 PM)Canard Wrote: In the graphic at the head of this thread, traffic sometimes backs up down the on-ramp to the Connestoga parkway (lower right corner)... what happens if it backs up into (and through) the roundabout?  Will it come to a standstill and jam up?  I can't think of a scenario in the Region where that's happened before - maybe sometimes along Ira Needles?

Ira Needles backs up because it was (until a couple months ago) two lanes, not because of the roundabouts. Now that it's four lanes, traffic flies through.
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#28
(01-22-2015, 01:39 AM)BuildingScout Wrote: I grew up in a country where roundabouts are common. In my experience they work best for low volume intersections and they quickly become a nightmare for busy ones. I've waited for over 5 minutes at rush hour when traveling westbound on Erb St at Ira Needles because northbound traffic on Ira Needles was relentless.

Often in the U.K., when traffic flow becomes bogged down in one or both directions because of high traffic volumes, you will see traffic signals added to the roundabouts ... 
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#29
Maybe I'm imagining things, but I can't seem to find the project pdf for the Homer Watson a do Alpine roundabouts on either the current or future construction pages.

http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/gettin...ojects.asp

I've looked at it multiple times in the past but it doesn't seem to be there anymore? Does anyone have a copy of it?
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#30
(10-09-2015, 07:20 PM)GtwoK Wrote: Maybe I'm imagining things, but I can't seem to find the project pdf for the Homer Watson a do Alpine roundabouts on either the current or future construction pages.

http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/gettin...ojects.asp

I've looked at it multiple times in the past but it doesn't seem to be there anymore? Does anyone have a copy of it?

It's there under Ottawa Street, Elmsdale Drive to Imperial Drive, Kitchener.

http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/gettin...oSheet.pdf

https://icreate3.esolutionsgroup.ca/2306...11-008.pdf
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