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General Road and Highway Discussion
(10-12-2017, 09:31 PM)tomh009 Wrote:
(10-12-2017, 09:20 PM)timio Wrote: I've seen two examples of mobile photo radar in the past 13 months: in Scotland they had a well marked van in a layby at the bottom of a straight downhill section, and in Banff a RCMP SUV was in the median of the Trans Canada with it's hood up, making you think it had broken down.  Two very different ways of accomplishing the same thing.

A recent article in Ireland said they were spending EUR 17M to run a fleet of 50 photo radar vans.  The ticket revenue was about 7M so the net cost was EUR 10M per year, or about C$300K/van/year.  If the goal is to target fixed areas such as school zones, fixed cameras are far more cost-effective.

Or as people would complain "a cash grab"...I find that phrase so frustrating.
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(10-12-2017, 04:10 AM)Canard Wrote: It almost sounds like we’re okay with those people on 401 in Toronto* who, in rush-hour jams, stay in the right lane, and blast up on-ramps every chance they get to bypass ~10 cars, then cut back in as if they had just joined the highway! People at the front of the line (unless they’re like me, and watch their rear-view mirrors like a hawk) have no idea what’s happened and think “Oh I’ll let this nice person in who has just joined the highway!”, having no clue that they just jumped in front of everyone else, rewarding their bad behaviour.

* - I have never seen this dickish behaviour anywhere else.

I think there's a miscommunication. I'm not talking about this.

To be clear: I think its fine for traffic coming onto the highway to go to the end of the lane before merging. I don't think its ok for someone to merge into the on-ramp from the highway in order to jump in front of people. My objection isn't moral or anything like that, just that its illegal and dangerous because the on-ramp traffic isn't necessarily expecting the move.
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(10-12-2017, 02:52 PM)JoeKW Wrote: I've had people fly past me on the shoulder of the rural part of highway 7 to cut ahead a few spots.  It's insane.

You mean where the road goes from 2-lanes to 1 (or I guess 4 to 2)? I've never understood the people that do this when its just one giant line of traffic anyway. I REALLY don't get it when I see it in the Winter and they're speeding through snow, ice, and slush to do it.
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Yah single lane each way with gravel shoulders.
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How about on Maple grove, heading West, at Beaverdale? Light is red. Line up of cars in the left lane, right lane merges about 100 m after the intersection. See it every day - everyone queues up nicely in the left lane and then someone will jump up and sit at the red light, and then gun it past everyone. So is that okay because it’s “using the capacity”?
For daily ion construction updates, photos and general urban rail news, follow me on twitter! @Canardiain
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Isn't that precisely the intention of that design? Without the "gunning it past everyone" aspect, of course.
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(10-12-2017, 01:24 PM)Bob_McBob Wrote: Photo radar expected in Waterloo Region within next few years

Photo Radar was approved in MAY?  Where was I when this was announced.... [MIND BLOWN!]

Coke
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(10-13-2017, 07:53 AM)panamaniac Wrote: Isn't that precisely the intention of that design?  Without the "gunning it past everyone" aspect, of course.

I would "assume" the design was more for vehicles turning right onto Maple Grove from Beaverdale... but even if its not "fair"... I don't think it's illegal.

I encounter the same situation every day on Fairway just past Pebble Creek where it goes to one lane. 

Coke
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It’s a bad design that leads to agressive driving and stress.
For daily ion construction updates, photos and general urban rail news, follow me on twitter! @Canardiain
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The point of that design is to have greater capacity through the intersection. 2 lanes of cars starting from a standstill has less throughput than one lane of cars at speed. I don't feel particular guilt over taking the soon-to-disappear lane. Once we're past the intersection, space opens up, and there's room to merge. Sometimes, people are so deadfast about all queueing in the through-lane, that the entire queue does not make it through the intersection in the light phase. If they had used both lanes, they would clear out the queue. They may need to go slow on the far side to sort back into a single lane, but they will make it through.
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(10-13-2017, 09:48 AM)Markster Wrote: The point of that design is to have greater capacity through the intersection.  2 lanes of cars starting from a standstill has less throughput than one lane of cars at speed.  I don't feel particular guilt over taking the soon-to-disappear lane.  Once we're past the intersection, space opens up, and there's room to merge.  Sometimes, people are so deadfast about all queueing in the through-lane, that the entire queue does not make it through the intersection in the light phase.  If they had used both lanes, they would clear out the queue.  They may need to go slow on the far side to sort back into a single lane, but they will make it through.

Unless the throughput limiting factor isn't the intersection but the road past the intersection.  Even if roads "should" work this way, this is one of those "people aren't going to just" things.  We have to change something to expect behaviour to change.
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I believe the design intent is to allow cars to pass a car or cars that are turning left.
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Not there, because there is a dedicated left turn lane as well.

   

I get what you’re saying Mark, and I agree on the capacity thing, but merging takes time and distance, too. So if everyone split equally here, the queue would be half as long, move half as fast, and the same number of people would make it through before the light changed on them.
For daily ion construction updates, photos and general urban rail news, follow me on twitter! @Canardiain
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(10-13-2017, 11:32 AM)Canard Wrote: So if everyone split equally here, the queue would be half as long, move half as fast, and the same number of people would make it through before the light changed on them.

The point is that the merge happens in a place where traffic is moving faster than "from a stop", and that's how it has more capacity. I disagree that it would necessarily be "half as fast", but do not currently have the time to build a simulation engine to show what I mean! Big Grin
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I actually agree that those road designs are really bad - even though Markster is right and they obviously improve throughput.  At the very least you could get an extra as many cars as fit into the right lane after the intersection through and in practice more than that - especially once you adjust for factors like transport trucks / poor drivers that aren't paying attention / etc.

Anyway Canard, so, yes that's ok.  This idea that people shouldn't use roads that are built is kind of crazy to me (even if there are possible reasons the roads should be designed differently).
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