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General Road and Highway Discussion
(07-12-2017, 08:52 PM)p2ee Wrote:
(07-12-2017, 07:44 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Additionally, a number of toll roads have repeatedly gone bankrupt, or had the state bail them out rather than raise tolls to cover maintenance costs.

As for GST on cars, that is a sales tax, not a road use fee.  If I instead bought a bicycle and then also went to the movies, I'd still pay that same tax, so it in no way contributes to roads.  Same for the GST applied to gas.  Only the fuel excise tax is a fee in excess of the standard sales tax we already pay.

The opinion piece mentioned that vehicle drivers are subsidised heavily by taxes.  The sales tax on vehicle purchases is going to the government as tax, later to be used as subsidies, and that tax is no small amount.  The revenue generated from those taxes would not exist if the vehicles were not purchased.  So why should it be excluded?  I understand it is not 'road use tax' per say, but we're talking about drivers getting subsidised by the state.  And the fact that HST on the gas is not being included is even worse.  Why should that not be included?
...

That is clearly false. If you don't have to buy a car, what are you going to do with that 20,000 dollars (and 50 dollars a week on gas). Are you going to throw it in the garbage? Obviously not. That money will get spent, and given that you've already got your necessities covered, you aren't likely to buy more of those, you'll probably instead buy more taxable items. Even if you were to save that money, eventually you will spend it. It comes back to the same thing, car or no car, the government is getting 13% of that money, so to suggest that the tax dollars from that item should count towards roads is just false.

(07-12-2017, 09:01 PM)SammyOES2 Wrote: Also, for the tax argument, we almost always associate the tax paid on something as an economic consequence of that activity.  It's not perfect, but its generally the most reasonable thing to do.  So when people just discount tax revenue related to spending on transportation because its a general tax and not a transportation tax, its kind of silly imo.

I think you are confusing the "economic activity generated by" and the "economic activity of buying"...as I explain above, the buying activity will still take place, and will almost certainly result in the same economic activity and taxes as buying a car (with a possible small decrease if you instead buy on average more imported goods).

The economic activity generated by owning and driving a car is a different issue, if we look at the economic benefits of roads, i.e., the businesses enabled to exist because there are transportation connections, those are real. However, the real question is whether we could achieve those same economic gains with cheaper more efficient infrastructure, i.e., not building a 20 lane wide highway through suburban Toronto, and instead building rail. And the answer by all accounts is probably yes.
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Messages In This Thread
General Road and Highway Discussion - by The85 - 01-18-2015, 12:24 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by JCnb - 02-26-2015, 12:04 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by JCnb - 02-26-2015, 01:09 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 04-19-2015, 07:46 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by nms - 05-11-2015, 02:08 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by JCnb - 05-27-2015, 08:09 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 09-25-2015, 07:04 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by nms - 10-19-2015, 01:01 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by JCnb - 11-12-2015, 10:53 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 12-07-2015, 09:58 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 12-07-2015, 11:03 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 12-07-2015, 01:23 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 12-09-2015, 03:47 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by Andy - 02-26-2016, 03:00 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by JCnb - 03-29-2016, 02:04 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by kps - 03-29-2016, 03:27 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by kps - 05-30-2016, 11:41 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 06-24-2016, 09:18 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 06-24-2016, 01:42 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 06-24-2016, 11:53 AM
Stop the Madness! - by IEFBR14 - 06-25-2016, 01:53 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by kps - 06-26-2016, 03:23 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by KW65 - 09-05-2016, 08:59 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 09-06-2016, 01:53 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 09-07-2016, 12:09 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by kps - 09-20-2016, 01:24 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by nms - 09-23-2016, 12:34 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 09-26-2016, 09:32 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 09-29-2016, 09:52 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 09-29-2016, 10:50 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by JCnb - 11-11-2016, 07:56 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 11-19-2016, 12:19 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 11-19-2016, 11:37 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by nms - 12-05-2016, 01:46 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by kps - 12-14-2016, 11:50 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 12-16-2016, 01:17 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 12-16-2016, 07:01 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 12-17-2016, 12:29 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 12-17-2016, 06:25 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 12-21-2016, 10:24 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by JCnb - 01-27-2017, 12:29 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by JCnb - 01-27-2017, 12:44 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by JCnb - 01-27-2017, 03:12 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 01-27-2017, 08:42 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 01-28-2017, 01:02 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 01-28-2017, 02:11 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 02-01-2017, 05:47 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 02-20-2017, 08:20 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 03-08-2017, 01:28 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 03-08-2017, 11:08 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 03-08-2017, 07:10 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 03-08-2017, 07:23 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 03-10-2017, 01:36 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 03-20-2017, 09:22 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 03-16-2017, 10:34 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 03-17-2017, 02:37 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 03-17-2017, 04:23 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 03-18-2017, 09:17 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by kps - 03-19-2017, 01:42 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 04-10-2017, 10:34 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 04-11-2017, 09:54 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 04-11-2017, 03:15 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 04-24-2017, 01:03 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by nms - 04-12-2017, 05:26 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 04-13-2017, 02:02 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 04-26-2017, 09:06 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by JCnb - 05-04-2017, 02:32 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by urbd - 05-07-2017, 11:42 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by urbd - 05-07-2017, 03:07 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by urbd - 05-07-2017, 03:40 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 05-09-2017, 11:59 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 05-09-2017, 12:04 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 05-09-2017, 04:54 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 05-10-2017, 04:47 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 05-11-2017, 10:23 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 05-11-2017, 09:37 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by kps - 06-06-2017, 11:53 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 06-06-2017, 12:01 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by kps - 06-06-2017, 01:58 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 06-07-2017, 03:09 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 06-09-2017, 11:28 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 06-10-2017, 12:24 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 06-12-2017, 11:06 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 06-15-2017, 09:47 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by JCnb - 06-15-2017, 12:18 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 06-15-2017, 02:08 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 07-25-2017, 03:01 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by kps - 06-27-2017, 02:10 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 07-11-2017, 04:23 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 07-12-2017, 06:44 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 07-12-2017, 08:43 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 07-12-2017, 09:49 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 07-12-2017, 08:52 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by danbrotherston - 07-12-2017, 09:58 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 07-12-2017, 09:03 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 07-12-2017, 10:35 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 07-16-2017, 07:28 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 07-17-2017, 10:03 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 07-17-2017, 10:49 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 07-18-2017, 07:06 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 07-26-2017, 11:08 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by JCnb - 07-27-2017, 03:51 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 07-27-2017, 05:09 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 07-27-2017, 11:18 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 07-28-2017, 09:00 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 07-31-2017, 12:24 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 08-01-2017, 01:24 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 08-01-2017, 05:01 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 08-01-2017, 05:00 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 08-18-2017, 01:02 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 08-31-2017, 03:39 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 09-05-2017, 09:31 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 09-08-2017, 10:58 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 09-11-2017, 07:26 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 09-11-2017, 03:15 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 09-14-2017, 02:17 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 09-18-2017, 07:19 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 09-20-2017, 09:32 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 09-20-2017, 10:30 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 09-20-2017, 01:49 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 09-20-2017, 04:58 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 09-21-2017, 10:25 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 09-22-2017, 10:03 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 09-23-2017, 08:59 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 09-24-2017, 09:06 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by JCnb - 10-03-2017, 09:41 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by JCnb - 10-12-2017, 10:00 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 10-14-2017, 06:58 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 10-16-2017, 08:49 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 10-30-2017, 09:42 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 10-31-2017, 09:18 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 11-13-2017, 10:41 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by nms - 11-13-2017, 02:28 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by p2ee - 11-13-2017, 06:14 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 11-15-2017, 11:04 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 11-15-2017, 12:03 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 11-20-2017, 11:02 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 11-23-2017, 04:33 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by nms - 11-24-2017, 06:12 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 11-28-2017, 05:13 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 11-29-2017, 11:48 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 12-09-2017, 06:39 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by kps - 12-09-2017, 07:59 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 12-12-2017, 12:33 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 12-11-2017, 10:04 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by Ace - 01-08-2018, 10:46 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 01-16-2018, 08:43 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 01-18-2018, 07:48 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 01-18-2018, 10:46 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 01-19-2018, 03:34 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by tvot - 04-17-2018, 11:09 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 04-27-2018, 08:28 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by urbd - 06-26-2018, 01:46 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by Lens - 07-26-2018, 12:55 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by Lens - 07-26-2018, 08:05 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 07-31-2018, 02:30 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 08-01-2018, 10:22 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by kps - 08-11-2018, 06:48 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 08-09-2018, 07:03 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 10-01-2018, 05:53 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by kps - 11-24-2018, 10:45 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by kps - 12-16-2018, 03:40 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 12-22-2018, 03:48 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by JCnb - 04-11-2019, 12:09 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 04-19-2019, 12:05 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 05-05-2019, 06:47 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 05-06-2019, 09:17 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 05-08-2019, 09:25 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 07-22-2019, 02:33 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by robd - 07-22-2019, 03:23 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 07-22-2019, 06:49 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 08-18-2019, 08:20 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 09-17-2019, 10:38 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 10-27-2019, 11:37 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 11-14-2019, 06:03 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by embe - 05-26-2020, 02:29 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by kps - 05-12-2020, 03:49 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by KW65 - 08-18-2020, 11:28 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by KW65 - 09-08-2020, 05:50 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 10-24-2020, 04:08 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 12-19-2020, 06:20 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 01-30-2021, 12:56 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 02-19-2021, 02:43 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 02-19-2021, 07:54 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 02-23-2021, 03:41 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 03-02-2021, 01:05 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by WLU - 03-02-2021, 09:23 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by nms - 03-03-2021, 10:45 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 04-08-2021, 09:23 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 05-30-2021, 05:33 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 05-30-2021, 07:57 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 05-31-2021, 02:31 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by nms - 06-15-2021, 02:47 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 07-16-2021, 11:46 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by nms - 07-20-2021, 11:26 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 07-27-2021, 12:00 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 08-31-2021, 10:05 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 09-01-2021, 09:54 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 09-01-2021, 01:26 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 09-01-2021, 04:43 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 09-01-2021, 06:26 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by nms - 09-28-2021, 08:44 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by nms - 10-07-2021, 11:09 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 11-13-2021, 02:28 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 01-31-2022, 07:40 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by nms - 01-31-2022, 10:09 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 04-08-2022, 05:47 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by robd - 05-05-2022, 03:19 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 05-31-2022, 07:21 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 06-01-2022, 04:50 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 06-02-2022, 10:59 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 06-02-2022, 08:44 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by nms - 06-02-2022, 08:09 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 06-03-2022, 11:00 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 07-06-2022, 12:53 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 07-18-2022, 12:53 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 07-18-2022, 02:30 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 07-19-2022, 03:00 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 07-19-2022, 06:34 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 07-22-2022, 10:04 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 07-24-2022, 11:51 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 07-24-2022, 05:28 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 07-25-2022, 06:42 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 09-14-2022, 07:25 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 09-15-2022, 05:53 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 09-16-2022, 04:14 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 10-06-2022, 10:18 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 10-08-2022, 06:03 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 11-04-2022, 12:22 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 11-27-2022, 09:54 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 01-12-2023, 06:04 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by SF22 - 02-08-2023, 11:44 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 02-08-2023, 08:31 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by SF22 - 02-08-2023, 10:36 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by SF22 - 02-09-2023, 12:09 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 02-10-2023, 04:01 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 02-13-2023, 11:36 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by SF22 - 03-01-2023, 12:50 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by SF22 - 03-01-2023, 03:49 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 04-20-2023, 09:26 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by SF22 - 04-20-2023, 10:17 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by SF22 - 04-20-2023, 02:13 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 04-20-2023, 04:26 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 04-29-2023, 06:06 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by SF22 - 05-02-2023, 09:02 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by SF22 - 05-02-2023, 12:13 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by SF22 - 05-03-2023, 09:10 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by SF22 - 05-17-2023, 02:37 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 07-28-2023, 04:54 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 07-29-2023, 12:04 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by nms - 08-03-2023, 03:10 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 08-08-2023, 10:13 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by timc - 08-09-2023, 11:17 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 12-30-2023, 01:31 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 12-31-2023, 07:01 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by plam - 12-31-2023, 09:54 PM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 01-04-2024, 11:28 AM
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - by ac3r - 01-13-2024, 03:23 PM

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