General Road and Highway Discussion

[danbrotherston]

"I suspect the reason is simply one of our cultural things.  When that ped light goes on, peds walk, no thinking."

I think this is a bit of a disrespectful way to put it. I don't think it's possible to get around in a city in Ontario obeying signals without thinking and also without being struck by a car. You're also ignoring the experiences people have at four-way stops and the like, where they may have the right-of-way but it's not largely respected by motorists.

At a roundabout on foot, motorists are supposed to yield to you. Does that happen? I wouldn't count on it. So you're right that there's a lot of thinking involved, and it's life-or-death thinking, so of course it's uncomfortable.

I don't intend any disrespect, it is simply part of our culture.  We prefer absolute rules, some places in Europe prefer this too, I'm sure places all over the world vary in this way.  And of course, it is not an absolute, our culture is diverse, just look at this board where some get agitated when people walk through construction zones, and others are comfortable with it.

In general though, our culture prefers absolute rules, but absolute rules don't exactly apply at roundabouts.  Four way stops are certainly different than roundabouts, cars are required to stop, nobody has to judge whether a car is physically able to stop for them when crossing a 4-way-stop, because its a stop sign--all vehicles are stopping regardless of the pedestrian's presence.  At a roundabout that judgement is required, no matter who legally has the right of way, physics always has the right of way.

As for walking around obeying signals without thinking, you're right, people will get hit, and they do.....There should be thinking at signals as well, "does that left turning driver see me, or is that a cell phone in their hand"...but it's easy to not think about it, and then, that's when people do get hit.  At roundabouts they're forced to think, and that's uncomfortable, but that doesn't make it inherently unsafe.  I agree, that it being uncomfortable is a problem, but I think it's a mind shift that could be made.

I think a bigger problem is drivers failing to yield, which also increases the danger of actually being hit.  Improving compliance of yielding would help.

My point is simply that I don't think roundabouts are so disastrous for pedestrians as many seem to feel.  Very similar roundabouts function very well for pedestrians and cyclists in Europe.