General Road and Highway Discussion

[tomh009]

THIS.

All the complainers of roundabouts (and the media) should have this fact front and centre.  You can get to your meeting 5 min later... You can put a Band-Aid on a boo-boo, but you can't bring back a loved one.  Roundabouts are far superior to intersections in this all too important category.

Coke

Nit:  You can leave for your meeting 5 minutes earlier and/or you can choose to live 5 minutes closer to your meeting and/or you can choose a meeting location (workplace) 5 minutes closer to your home.

However, the reality is that people don't do that.  And human behaviour is awfully difficult to change.

[Elmira Guy]

It astounds me how people oppose roundabouts. Most perplexing are the people who actually believe they are less safe than the cross intersections they have replaced.
The best example I can personally think of to counter this ridiculous assertion is the roundabout between Waterloo and Elmira (at St Jacobs). Before the roundabout was built there was not a year that went by where at least one (though often more, including three fellow students from EDSS in two separate incidents way back when) person wasn't killed at that intersection. Since the roundabout, zero.

That fact alone more than proves their value.

[timio]

The only close calls I've had at roundabouts have been when people don't signal, or don't use them properly (like the time I was in the inside lane turning left, and the car beside me decided it was doing a U-turn from the outside lane).

If people (in general) took time to figure out proper use and signalling, they would be much easier to navigate. Unfortunately intentional ignorance leads to dislike.

[Elmira Guy]

/\ Very true. But even when there are collisions, they are much less serious as everyone is moving in the same direction. No more t-bone crashes at speed.

[danbrotherston]

The only close calls I've had at roundabouts have been when people don't signal, or don't use them properly (like the time I was in the inside lane turning left, and the car beside me decided it was doing a U-turn from the outside lane).

If people (in general) took time to figure out proper use and signalling, they would be much easier to navigate.  Unfortunately intentional ignorance leads to dislike.

Yeah, I've been there.  

I think there's also an unfortunate tendency in general to, when realizing you're going the wrong way, instead of going and turning around, to just go the way you want to go.  You see this on the freeway with people cutting across to (or off of) an exit ramp at the last second.

[Coke6pk]

You see this on the freeway with people cutting across to (or off of) an exit ramp at the last second.

I would happily applaud the O.P.P. doing a blitz on this activity.  Have someone on the overpass watch and meet them at the top of the off-ramp.  That would make my day!  

Coke

[JoeKW]

The worst act I've seen in a roundabout was a straight up u-turn by a driver who had no idea what they were doing.

[KevinT]

The only close calls I've had at roundabouts have been when people don't signal, or don't use them properly (like the time I was in the inside lane turning left, and the car beside me decided it was doing a U-turn from the outside lane).

Once upon a time I recall the region's "how to use roundabouts" page saying that you should never be beside (or pass) another vehicle in a roundabout.  I keep that in my head, and speed up or slow down appropriately so that there is always a gap beside me regardless of which roundabout lane I'm in.  Even if some obliviot pulls a U-y or a left from the outer lane, it doesn't affect me in the inner one.  (Though I recently had to do a complete go-around because there was no way for me to make that space when a speeding outer laner pulled a left on me...)

[tomh009]

Once upon a time I recall the region's "how to use roundabouts" page saying that you should never be beside (or pass) another vehicle in a roundabout. 

Wait wait wait ... there are two lanes but only one should be used at a time?  Seriously?

[UrbanCanoe]

I've seen my fair share of confused drivers try to navigate roundabouts, especially the large multi-lane ones, including two occasions where vehicles drove clockwise  - all over vehicles just stopped and let them pass through. But the scariest was an elderly lady who was clearly confused, white-knuckles on the steering wheel, about to enter the roundabout at Hespeler Road & Queen St in Cambridge. I rolled down my window to ask if she was okay and needed help, but she suddenly drove ahead along the red line in the image below... yup, drove over the median twice! Thankfully there wasn't any oncoming traffic, but hopefully she sought out instruction or cancels her drivers license  

   

[Canard]

Once upon a time I recall the region's "how to use roundabouts" page saying that you should never be beside (or pass) another vehicle in a roundabout. 

Wait wait wait ... there are two lanes but only one should be used at a time?  Seriously?

No, he's not saying that at all.

He's saying this is bad:

   

This is better:

   

[tomh009]

All right ... but unless you are doing synchronized driving with the people in the other lane, it likely won't ever be quite so tidy as those diagrams.

[MidTowner]

So far, I think all of the comments have been about motorists' safety. I agree that the statistics show that the rate of collisions between vehicles is increased at roundabouts, but the severity is decreased. What about the rate of people being struck by vehicles in roundabouts? Anecdotally, motorists seem not to understand who has the right-of-way in roundabouts, and do not stop for people crossing as they should. I think a lot of it (here) has to do with the fact that motorists are not accustomed to them, and are focused on other cars, and not other types of road users.

[danbrotherston]

All right ... but unless you are doing synchronized driving with the people in the other lane, it likely won't ever be quite so tidy as those diagrams.

But you are supposed to be doing "synchronized driving" that's what "no overtaking or passing in the roundabout" means.

To be honest, it usually doesn't work out that way, in fact, usually, cars are synchronized together, because cars wait beside each other, and both drivers often end up going at the same time.


I don't think it's such a big deal, but it does provide an even bigger buffer in the event of cars not knowing what they're doing and reacting poorly.

[danbrotherston]

So far, I think all of the comments have been about motorists' safety. I agree that the statistics show that the rate of collisions between vehicles is increased at roundabouts, but the severity is decreased. What about the rate of people being struck by vehicles in roundabouts? Anecdotally, motorists seem not to understand who has the right-of-way in roundabouts, and do not stop for people crossing as they should. I think a lot of it (here) has to do with the fact that motorists are not accustomed to them, and are focused on other cars, and not other types of road users.

By people do you mean, people on foot i.e., pedestrians?

I don't know that there report highlights anything specific, but it is worth noting that all but one of the top pedestrian collision intersections are signalized intersections.  The same things that make roundabouts safe for drivers make them safer for pedestrians, even in the face of poor motorist behaviour.  Specifically, there's only one place to look for cars to be coming from, pedestrians will see them, even if drivers aren't looking or yielding.  And relatively low speeds mean that collisions which do happen are relatively minor, compared with a signalized intersection.

This especially makes sense if you think of the directions a car may hit you while making a crossing on a walk sign:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=12fxnvC...sp=sharing

<iframe src="https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/embed?mid=12fxnvC5dAz6qyOJrGCIrXDwoDJI" width="640" height="480"></iframe>

Three potential collisions, all from different directions, including possibly behind.  A pedestrian must keep their wits about them.  Where as at the roundabout, only one possible direction cars can be coming from.

Now yes, you might have drivers who go the wrong way round like mentioned earlier, but that's rare, in fact that's much more rare than people running red lights (which happens quite frequently), which adds another two possible collisions to the map below as well.

I of course, would like to see some data, but that's why I would expect a roundabout to be safer for pedestrians.

On the other hand, the same thing which makes roundabouts scary for drivers (they're different, they're new) makes them scary for pedestrians, plus the added discomfort of having to manage eye contact and moving between possibly multiple lanes of possibly failing to yield drivers.  It's much more uncomfortable than a signalized intersection, even if it is safer.