General Road and Highway Discussion

[GtwoK]

No roundabout; they're adding a few lanes and reconfiguring the intersection to be a bit higher up on the hill (so Fountain will curve up it). Which seems like it would be more than a month's worth of work!

[Canard]

But they're also doing a roundabout at the road a little further East, right? Wouldn't this all happen at once?

I didn't realize anything was happening at the bottom of Shantz Hill (why is it not still King Street here??), to be honest. Why is it changing?

[GtwoK]

Nope, no roundabout! It was one of the proposed options, but they went with an alternative.

King from Fountain to Riverside Park is being restructured to increase the curve radius around the flour mill for better visibility (and I think is getting an MUT?),
King in front of the old hotel is getting a right turn lane onto Fountain (heading up the hill)
Fountain from Shantz to King is getting a second Eastbound lane
The Shantz intersection is being moved up the hill, and gaining (I believe) a second left turn lane onto Fountain Eastbound, and a right turn lane onto Fountain Westbound.

Edit: Ah, here we go!





And in even more detail

[Markster]

A Westbound ramp to the 401 from the 7/8 bypass and a 7/8 ramp from EB 401 traffic should be a priority over this King Street fix.

One is a project requiring $millions in overpasses and reconfiguration.
One is a project requiring $thousands in paint removal and reapplication.

I don't think priority is really an issue here. I was merely suggesting an "easy win".

[Drake]

Markster, your original posting confused me. Please accept my apologies. Your diagram has North at the bottom. The link to Google maps has North to the left. I really didn't get it it. I understood there was a proposal to add a two lane ramp from King to W/B highway 8.

Now that I understand, I agree. I have often wondered what the traffic stats were for that area. I think the EB -> SB Highway 8 traffic gets the short end of the stick. 1 lane is not enough for the volume I imagine travels that route.

Your suggestion to repaint the lane lines makes a lot of sense and is a cost effective solution.

[Markster]

Ha!

Okay, here I've fixed it
North is now up!

   

[Canard]

Nope, no roundabout! It was one of the proposed options, but they went with an alternative. snip

Thanks so much for that explanation - that's great, really appreciate it. Even with no roundabout, that's an incredible amount of work here! Will definitely be a huge improvement. The current dynamics of vehicles here are... "interesting", to say the least, especially when coming Northwest out of Preston if you still want to head Northwest on King (eventually).

[timc]

Now that I understand, I agree. I have often wondered what the traffic stats were for that area. I think the EB -> SB Highway 8 traffic gets the short end of the stick. 1 lane is not enough for the volume I imagine travels that route.

The EB->SB ramp was basically unchanged when the flyover was built, right? And a lot of stuff has been built west of there since then.

[neonjoe]

One note about that intersection. There may have been higher traffic volumes heading southbound through the intersection prior to iON construction. All traffic from Charles defaulted into that additional right lane on King St. So it really was two roads worth of traffic coming together. We may see it increase once again when all streets reopen.

The other option I would suggest is just have the right lane southbound default into a right turn lane onto Dixon and only have one through lane southbound through the Montgomery-Dixon intersection and allow the 7-8 E -> 8 E on ramp default to the right lane without a merge.

(PS the diagram was a bit confusing at first since Highway 85 only begins under the Victoria Street bridge)

[chutten]

Ha!

Okay, here I've fixed it
North is now up!

I officially hate directions in this town.

[Markster]

The other option I would suggest is just have the right lane southbound default into a right turn lane onto Dixon and only have one through lane southbound through the Montgomery-Dixon intersection and allow the 7-8 E -> 8 E on ramp default to the right lane without a merge.

I think having the 2 lanes on King going through the Dixon/Montgomery intersection is fine as-is. With 2 lanes you can get more traffic through the intersection in a single light cycle. Then there's 400m to speed up, which opens up room between the cars to allow a merge to single-file.

[timio]

Ha!

Okay, here I've fixed it
North is now up!

I officially hate directions in this town.

Weber Street North, South, East, or West?

[Canard]

I think having the 2 lanes on King going through the Dixon/Montgomery intersection is fine as-is. With 2 lanes you can get more traffic through the intersection in a single light cycle. Then there's 400m to speed up, which opens up room between the cars to allow a merge to single-file.

I mean this honestly and am not trying to come across as rude: have you ever driven through this intersection in this direction (coming off the highway) before? If not, I'll happily mount my GoPro this week and slightly alter my commute to get some footage to show you how bad it is.

Your proposal (and how it is, now) is dynamite on paper. But human psychology doesn't work that way and it's terrible to go through. I dread it every time. If people perfectly zipper-merged and people were patient and kind and understanding, it'd work great. Instead, you get the majority of people queueing on the right, with the aggressive drivers on the left, who then floor it and do 80-90 up the hill to the merge, ramming their way in. Then somebody pushes the pedestrian crosswalk and 50 cars stop for 2 minutes while one person saunters across (sorry, but true), and since the crosswalk is so close to the merge point, those folks in the left lane really have to give 'er to make it to the merge first!

I shake my head every time when I come to the "lane ends" sign and watch people in the lane that is ending not realize and just drift over.

It is a terrible arrangement.

[Markster]

have you ever driven through this intersection in this direction (coming off the highway) before?

That wasn't the direction I was talking about, I was talking about the other way, where you're supposed to speed up to 90.

As for the direction you're talking about, naturally, the merge doesn't work as well when the speeds are lower, and there's less space between cars.

And yes, in 13 years of living in KW, I have driven through there. Once or twice.

[Canard]

Ok! Sorry, I misunderstood you meant going onto the highway. I completely missed neonjoe's post - re-reading it now I follow. Sorry again.