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General Road and Highway Discussion
(07-31-2018, 02:30 PM)timc Wrote:
(07-31-2018, 12:55 PM)Pheidippides Wrote: Did they go with the roll curb on those "protected" cycling lanes too?

No, these are "buffered" bike lanes. Paint only.

Are you sure? I thought this was the case that council went against staff's recommendation and pushed for the segregated lanes.

That the Regional Municipality of Waterloo take the following actions with respect to the Environmental Assessment and Preliminary Design Study for University Avenue between Keats Way and Erb Street in the City of Waterloo:
a) Approve the Recommended Design Concept for the proposed reconstruction and widening of University Avenue from Keats Way to Erb Street as described in Report TES-DCS-16-03 dated February 23, 2016 with the exception that segregated cycling lanes be included in the Design Concept instead of buffered on-road cycling lanes.
b) Direct staff to file a Notice of Completion as required by the Municipal Class Environmental Assessment and place the project file on the public record for review for a period of 30 days.
Carried, as amended

I just never saw the final design.
Everyone move to the back of the bus and we all get home faster.
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(07-31-2018, 05:11 PM)Pheidippides Wrote:
(07-31-2018, 02:30 PM)timc Wrote: No, these are "buffered" bike lanes. Paint only.

Are you sure? I thought this was the case that council went against staff's recommendation and pushed for the segregated lanes.

That the Regional Municipality of Waterloo take the following actions with respect to the Environmental Assessment and Preliminary Design Study for University Avenue between Keats Way and Erb Street in the City of Waterloo:
a) Approve the Recommended Design Concept for the proposed reconstruction and widening of University Avenue from Keats Way to Erb Street as described in Report TES-DCS-16-03 dated February 23, 2016 with the exception that segregated cycling lanes be included in the Design Concept instead of buffered on-road cycling lanes.
b) Direct staff to file a Notice of Completion as required by the Municipal Class Environmental Assessment and place the project file on the public record for review for a period of 30 days.
Carried, as amended

I just never saw the final design.

I have this question as well, both staff and council pressed hard for their preferred design, but staff's justification was...weak...to be polite.

I guess we will see in 3-6 months.
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Oh, OK. I missed that part. I would be happy to see protected lanes instead, but I had recently read the word "buffered" in a news report and connected that with what I read in the staff report. If "segregated" lanes are being built, I assume that means roll curbs, similar to Columbia Street.
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It looks like it will be a 1.7m cycling lane with semi-mountable curb between it and the motor vehicle lane.

   

See page 11 of the drawings document here.
Everyone move to the back of the bus and we all get home faster.
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Look, they do have a barrier curb, it's just between the bikes and pedestrians. If you combined the bike and sidewalk with the segment in between, you could get wider versions of both, and put the curb over next to the cars.
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Ugh, and they've also called for 3.65 meter lanes.  They don't need those if they're using roll curbs, AFAIK.

I cannot stand spending money to make our roads less safe.
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Why not change careers and work for the Region and become a designer/planner? You have a lot of very good ideas and strong beliefs and I have to think your energy would be better spent for the benefit of us all if you were doing this professionally... just a thought
For daily ion construction updates, photos and general urban rail news, follow me on twitter! @Canardiain
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Jeff Henry, councillor for the northdale ward, went to school for engineering, added on a political science degree, worked in UW's bureaucracy, was elected as a politician, and then went to do a Masters in planning, so it's certainly possible to go full circle.
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(08-02-2018, 08:28 AM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: Look, they do have a barrier curb, it's just between the bikes and pedestrians. If you combined the bike and sidewalk with the segment in between, you could get wider versions of both, and put the curb over next to the cars.

Yes, then you could move the 1.5-2.0m of sod that will last for about 2 weeks from each side to the middle and make a nice 3-4m median boulevard (which has also been shown to slow excessive vehicle speeds).
Everyone move to the back of the bus and we all get home faster.
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Always amazes me that those that don't drive cars are experts on road design! This is not Europe where everyone drives small cars. We need to be able to accommodate larger vehicles including transport/delivery as well as buses, fire and ambulance. A lot of drivers have trouble staying within the lanes we have now!
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(08-02-2018, 06:29 PM)creative Wrote: Always amazes me that those that don't drive cars are experts on road design! This is not Europe where everyone drives small cars. We need to be able to accommodate larger vehicles including transport/delivery as well as buses, fire and ambulance. A lot of drivers have trouble staying within the lanes we have now!

I never claimed to be an "expert"...and while I'm not sure how serious Canard was in his suggestion, my lack of real credentials is probably the biggest real impediment to actually working in the field.  When I returned to school, I did consider planning, but alas, it was not the path I chose.

In any case, I am still capable of reading material on the subject.  I has been studied extensively in the US, and it has been found that 12 foot lanes are less safe, and result in more speeding than 11 foot lanes.  And 11 foot lanes are found to be similar to 10 foot lanes in safety.

This is all in spite of the fact that one of the explicit goals for using wider lanes was better safety.

As for your comment on vehicle sizes, I'm not sure how big you think your car is, but Europe has trucks and buses, same as we do, and they fit down 3 meter wide lanes just fine.  And in fact, the buses and trucks here fit down the few narrow 3 meter wide lanes we do have, all our GRT buses are 2.6 meters wide, and the widest trucks on the road are still under 3 meters wide (not including mirrors).

In fact, the biggest limiting factor on large vehicles traversing roads is usually turning radii, which is another issue all together.

It is very apparent in the winter how unnecessarily wide our lanes are and how unnecessarily large the turning radii are, given the substantial amount of snow that sits near the curb without ever being disturbed by wheels.
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(08-02-2018, 08:00 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(08-02-2018, 06:29 PM)creative Wrote: Always amazes me that those that don't drive cars are experts on road design! This is not Europe where everyone drives small cars. We need to be able to accommodate larger vehicles including transport/delivery as well as buses, fire and ambulance. A lot of drivers have trouble staying within the lanes we have now!

I never claimed to be an "expert"...and while I'm not sure how serious Canard was in his suggestion, my lack of real credentials is probably the biggest real impediment to actually working in the field.  When I returned to school, I did consider planning, but alas, it was not the path I chose.

It’s amply clear from reading your posts that you are actually thinking about things, and what you say should not be dismissed. There is a big difference between just spouting off about expert topics, and actually digging in, thinking, and trying to apply appropriate bits of expert knowledge that one can pick up. A knee-jerk “experts must be right” is just as bad as “those elitist idiots. What a bunch of morans!”.
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King Street has reopened at Queen.
My Twitter: @KevinLMaps
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Has Queen St. reopened too? I believe it was closed off as well in the area. (What were they doing?)
For daily ion construction updates, photos and general urban rail news, follow me on twitter! @Canardiain
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Queen is another story entirely. It's being completely rebuilt from Charles to Duke..
My Twitter: @KevinLMaps
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