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155 Uptown | 67 m | 19 fl | Proposed
#31
It looks like the 155 Caroline project will go ahead with a new developer and will be more upscale than Mady had planned. The shared podium will finally solve 144 Park's visitor parking problem.

http://www.therecord.com/news-story/6130...goes-bust/
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#32
It's good to see that the project has been rescued. 155 wasn't inexpensive by any means, though, is it really realistic for them to move further upmarket? But maybe they have done their homework ...
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#33
For a buyer to come in with a reasonable amount of pre-sold units makes it attractive, more so than scratch. I would suspect that as long as they don't have to go to mezzanine financing, they should do fine.
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#34
Quote:Of the 178 units, 79 were prepurchased as part of the original plans. Most plan to carry through with their investment.

I'm glad the project will finally go ahead, but does that paragraph mean that the 79 who prepurchased as 155 Park...
1. will have to pay more than they originally planned in order to get high-end units?
2. get high end units for the mid-range price they originally agreed to?
3. will get mid-range units in the midst of a high-end condo development?
4. some other arrangement?

In any case if this is now a high-end condo I'll bet the original buyers will get to pay much higher monthly maintenance fees than they originally bargained for. Otherwise there would have to be some sort of two-tier ownership structure where some owners are more equal than others.
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#35
It's on Caroline, not Park, and I would assume it was probably high end in the first place. I suspect we'll have to wait for the website to open up to see what has changed from the original. As far as I remember, that's the same number of units they had before, so I would assume that whatever you bought, size wise, is the same. As for finishes, that's unknown.
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#36
When I look at the rents in the Barrelyards, and think of the high rents likely to be found in the Princess development, and now this, I'm wondering just how much high rent can be accommodated in UpTown?

I also worry that the high rent places, current and future, will always be exorbitantly filled with parking. While my six figure household has no cars, I feel that there's a certain rent/purchase price that can't be sold without at least 2 parking spaces/unit, further keeping close-to-LRT developments from having LRT users, or at least LRT-in-place-of-excessive-car-ownership users.
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#37
(11-23-2015, 08:45 AM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: When I look at the rents in the Barrelyards, and think of the high rents likely to be found in the Princess development, and now this, I'm wondering just how much high rent can be accommodated in UpTown?

I also worry that the high rent places, current and future, will always be exorbitantly filled with parking. While my six figure household has no cars, I feel that there's a certain rent/purchase price that can't be sold without at least 2 parking spaces/unit, further keeping close-to-LRT developments from having LRT users, or at least LRT-in-place-of-excessive-car-ownership users.

This isn't a rental development. It's a condo development. 

ISTM that's a significant difference when it comes to parking. Carless renters, should their circumstances change and they need a car can either start renting that space (if available) or take the relatively easy option of moving. 

It's a bit more complicated for a condo unit owner. They can buy a spot in anticipation of future need (and then try to rent it out.) But they have to have the capital (or borrowing ability) to do that. Or they can try to rent a spot from someone else who bought one but doesn't need it. Or else they have to factor in the high frictional costs of selling and buying units if they later want on premises parking. 

I suppose one way to mitigate some of this with condo apartments is to sell all units without dedicated parking spots. Then condo management would rent out spaces. That way if you don't need a space you don't need to pay for it. If you later need a space you rent it just like all your neighbours. However in that model someone has to cover the capital costs of the parking area and take on the risk that they can rent out enough spaces to make this arrangement viable.
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#38
If I recall correctly, they were selling one spot per unit for the Caroline property and I suspect that hasn't changed, given all that has transpired. In Toronto, they are selling a lot of condos with no parking, but that is a density issue at which we are no where close to in KW.
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#39
(11-23-2015, 09:21 AM)ookpik Wrote: I suppose one way to mitigate some of this with condo apartments is to sell all units without dedicated parking spots. Then condo management would rent out spaces. That way if you don't need a space you don't need to pay for it. If you later need a space you rent it just like all your neighbours. However in that model someone has to cover the capital costs of the parking area and take on the risk that they can rent out enough spaces to make this arrangement viable.

The more of this we do, the more viable it is. This block in particular would be a great spot for a (private) pay parking structure available for any uses - rather than the tightly-coupled parking for Bauer buildings, for this development, and for Sun Life. If it's available to the public, that means you have a much broader potential pool of users, e.g. people working a few blocks away might use it.
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#40
Interested to see what changes will be made. In particular to the podium. As we've seen, it's possible to have parking in the podium while maintaining an active street front if the desire is there.
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#41
(11-23-2015, 12:19 PM)Spokes Wrote: Interested to see what changes will be made.  In particular to the podium.  As we've seen, it's possible to have parking in the podium while maintaining an active street front if the desire is there.

I'd expect to see no changes. IIRC, the plans call for the Caroline-facing parking stalls to be assembled and convertible to space to allow for commercial uses to be "carved into" the parking garage. Given the reports of the original developer going hard after 144/155 occupants/purchasers for parking, likely to facilitate the sale to the new developer, there's likely zero chance of a reduction in parking or change in its initial configuration.
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#42
(11-23-2015, 10:57 AM)mpd618 Wrote: The more of this we do, the more viable it is. This block in particular would be a great spot for a (private) pay parking structure available for any uses - rather than the tightly-coupled parking for Bauer buildings, for this development, and for Sun Life. If it's available to the public, that means you have a much broader potential pool of users, e.g. people working a few blocks away might use it.

Again, the main barrier to this would be the capital costs of the facility.  Who's going to put up $1M or more to test the concept?

I'm just brainstorming here but...

Maybe the developer could float shares of the company that operates the facility. Share ownership, say of at least $xx,000, might also confer some right to rent a parking space either in a prestige location (e.g. nearest to where you live or near an elevator, etc.) and/or at lower than market rates. Or maybe something like if you own at least $yy,000 in shares the dividends paid by the corporation will be enough to cover the rent on a parking spot. (Dividends are taxable so there might be better ways to structure such an arrangement.)

There would still be risks but shared ownership would help spread them out. And those who live in the area and/or occupy space in the parking facility would be able to share in the costs, risks and (hopefully) rewards.

Also it's only a 5-10 minute walk from GR Hospital and, as you say, it's even closer to Sun Life. So it might be possible for people who have spots in the facility and who drive to work elsewhere to make their spots available to GRH/SunL visitors and employees between 9am and 5pm. Those revenues could be shared between the operating company and the "owners" of the spots. There are already cellphone apps that facilitate this sort of arrangement, e.g. Parking apps will allow owners to rent out parking spots by the hour
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#43
The initial key is indeed finding zones of co-location, either high density of residences or residences close to commercial/retail with a demand for parking. I'd love to see Kitchener find a block that's slated for redevelopment, and alongside the first development (of let's say 3-4), build excessive parking for that development in a structured environment where you could have residential parking alongside monthly and/or hourly spots. If it was found that 30% of the spots were in use for the residential component, and another 20% were in use enough to justify leaving them in for monthly/hourly pay parking, then the remaining 50% could be used in conjunction with one of the next developments, allowing for them to reduce their built-in parking. You'd need a mechanism to buy/sell parking from your possession into/out-of the monthly/hourly pool, so that you wouldn't be concerning buyers about committing to a car-less life that can only be sold to other car-less buyers later on.
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#44
(11-23-2015, 01:13 PM)ookpik Wrote: Again, the main barrier to this would be the capital costs of the facility.  Who's going to put up $1M or more to test the concept?

Not sure there's much to test in the idea of a privately-owned parking garage. Sun Life could do it in partnership with a residential developer on even some of their own lands.
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#45
(11-23-2015, 12:51 PM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote:
(11-23-2015, 12:19 PM)Spokes Wrote: Interested to see what changes will be made.  In particular to the podium.  As we've seen, it's possible to have parking in the podium while maintaining an active street front if the desire is there.

I'd expect to see no changes. IIRC, the plans call for the Caroline-facing parking stalls to be assembled and convertible to space to allow for commercial uses to be "carved into" the parking garage. Given the reports of the original developer going hard after 144/155 occupants/purchasers for parking, likely to facilitate the sale to the new developer, there's likely zero chance of a reduction in parking or change in its initial configuration.

I thought there would be no commercial space facing Caroline?
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