Population and Housing

[jamincan]

Statistics Canada provides a Census Dictionary

In brief, a CMA is made up of constituent Census Subdivisions (which correspond to municipal boundaries) centered on a core population centre. Outlying CSDs are included in the CMA when at least 50% of residents work in the core, or 50% of its labour force live in the core. There are a bunch of additional rules, but that is the basic gist of it.

Economic Regions are set in collaboration with provinces and generally fall along Census Division lines (which correspond to upper-level municipal boundaries). I'm not sure the exact rationale, but the provincial government generally breaks down the province into 6 major regions - GTA, Central, East, Southwest, Northeast and Northwest. The Statistics Canada Economic Regions correspond to those larger regions, and seem to allow smaller sub-regions to be examined within them:
Southwest -> Windsor-Sarnia, London, and Stratford-Bruce Peninsula
Central -> Hamilton-Niagara Peninsula, Kitchener-Waterloo-Barrie, and Muskoka-Kawarthas
GTA -> Toronto
East -> Kingston-Pembroke, Ottawa
Northeast -> Northeast
Northwest -> Northwest

[danbrotherston]

This is a very strange conglomeration, as far as I'm aware, we have few economic ties to Barrie, there are no direct transportation routes between the two areas, and no social connection that I'm aware of.

I can believe this is a stats can grouping of some type, but it makes little sense to me IMO, it is certainly not in any way comparable to Ottawa region which is a highly centralized and integrated area. And, further, if you include the metro area of Ottawa (which includes parts of Quebec) which is more representative of the population of economic region, we are also still smaller.

A lot of Census information doesn't make sense.

Take London for example, it's "metro" population includes places far outside the city, and also outside the region/county. Same applies with Hamilton (includes Burlington) and Toronto, of course.

Take this area, the metro population doesn't even count all of the region, let alone anything outside the region (and most fair comparison is London -- which, as I had mentioned, includes population base far outside the city and region).

As for the economic region, I have no idea how they came up with it. It would make sense if it was Kitchener-Guelph-Brantford-Stratford, for example. But I guess this is the way the government wants it split up.

Yeah, metro areas are always a bit handwavy...like Hamilton and Toronto are arguably the same metro area...because the GTA is crazy, it kind of just eats everything.

But something like London should be very straightforward, there's clearly a grey area--places which are partially independent economically but still have some commuters, but unlike the GTHA it isn't a continuous suburban area.

I think you're right on economic region though...KGBS would make more sense (assuming Kitchener includes Waterloo and Cambridge).

Ultimately, this is trying to put a box around humans, which is at best, tricky, and at worst pretty harmful, but even for that, the combination of KW and Barrie is strange.

[jeffster]

A lot of Census information doesn't make sense.

Take London for example, it's "metro" population includes places far outside the city, and also outside the region/county. Same applies with Hamilton (includes Burlington) and Toronto, of course.

Take this area, the metro population doesn't even count all of the region, let alone anything outside the region (and most fair comparison is London -- which, as I had mentioned, includes population base far outside the city and region).

As for the economic region, I have no idea how they came up with it. It would make sense if it was Kitchener-Guelph-Brantford-Stratford, for example. But I guess this is the way the government wants it split up.

Yeah, metro areas are always a bit handwavy...like Hamilton and Toronto are arguably the same metro area...because the GTA is crazy, it kind of just eats everything.

But something like London should be very straightforward, there's clearly a grey area--places which are partially independent economically but still have some commuters, but unlike the GTHA it isn't a continuous suburban area.

I think you're right on economic region though...KGBS would make more sense (assuming Kitchener includes Waterloo and Cambridge).

Ultimately, this is trying to put a box around humans, which is at best, tricky, and at worst pretty harmful, but even for that, the combination of KW and Barrie is strange.

When you travel west from Oshawa, 401-403-QEW-USA, you basically have almost 200 km of driving through large cities and urban sprawl.

It's unique in Canada, with a few places like it in some larger states.

[CP42]

Not sure if the Housing Affordability Task Force Report was posted elsewhere or not, but there is a Q&A with its members this Wednesday, for those interested.

Report of the Housing Affordability Task Force:
https://files.ontario.ca/mmah-housing-af...-07-v2.pdf

Q&A with Task Force Members this Wednesday at 7:00pm:
https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/qa-ontario-a...7139179477

[Bytor]

Not sure if the Housing Affordability Task Force Report was posted elsewhere or not, but there is a Q&A with its members this Wednesday, for those interested.

Report of the Housing Affordability Task Force:
https://files.ontario.ca/mmah-housing-af...-07-v2.pdf

Q&A with Task Force Members this Wednesday at 7:00pm:
https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/qa-ontario-a...7139179477

Is that an actual Ontario Government task force? Or is it just a group of interested parties?

[panamaniac]

Not sure if the Housing Affordability Task Force Report was posted elsewhere or not, but there is a Q&A with its members this Wednesday, for those interested.

Report of the Housing Affordability Task Force:
https://files.ontario.ca/mmah-housing-af...-07-v2.pdf

Q&A with Task Force Members this Wednesday at 7:00pm:
https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/qa-ontario-a...7139179477

Is that an actual Ontario Government task force? Or is it just a group of interested parties?

As the report indicates, the Task Force was struck by the GofO.

[Bytor]

Here's something I was just thinking of:

How many people does it take to build a condo tower versus something like a three- to six-storey timber-framed building or a 5+1?

Arrow Lofts Phase II (the Bow) is 175 units is going on 5 years and it doesn't look like people are moving in yest based on what I see on the balconies.

In the neighbourhood where I grew up, Country Hills, you could take four of those bungalows and squish them together on to just three of the lots. They're all 1,000+ sq ft so that could be 5 800sqft condos or rentals on a floor. Build up 3 storeys. 15 units. That building can be finished inside of a year.

Build 5 of the each year for 5 years and you get 375 units of housing compared to Arrow-2's 175 units. More than twice as much and likely cheaper with more square feet, too. 4 a year would be 300 units, 3 a year would be 225.

Would the equivalent number of people working on a 16 storey condo like that be the number of people you'd need to build several three-storey timber-frames per year like I describe?

[tomh009]

Wood-frame buildings are definitely quicker to construct, at least for low- to mid-rise.

[jeffster]

Here's something I was just thinking of:

How many people does it take to build a condo tower versus something like a three- to six-storey timber-framed building or a 5+1?

Arrow Lofts Phase II (the Bow) is 175 units is going on 5 years and it doesn't look like people are moving in yest based on what I see on the balconies.

In the neighbourhood where I grew up, Country Hills, you could take four of those bungalows and squish them together on to just three of the lots. They're all 1,000+ sq ft so that could be 5 800sqft condos or rentals on a floor. Build up 3 storeys. 15 units. That building can be finished inside of a year.

Build 5 of the each year for 5 years and you get 375 units of housing compared to Arrow-2's 175 units. More than twice as much and likely cheaper with more square feet, too. 4 a year would be 300 units, 3 a year would be 225.

Would the equivalent number of people working on a 16 storey condo like that be the number of people you'd need to build several three-storey timber-frames per year like I describe?

It would seem that some developers are really slow. Auburn, who is doing Arrow Lofts Phase II don't seem to be in a rush. I have no idea why, other than thinking it has something to do with maximizing rental income.

Charlie West, people are already moving in, and that was a significantly larger build.

Back to your question: it would depend on the builder. The new apartment for women on Blockline is almost done, and it almost seemed to go up overnight. It seems that we have two speeds in these cities when it comes to builds: painfully slow and lightning fast. Barrel Yards has been going on for over a decade and it's still not done. Arrow Phase II has been in development since 2005 -- 16 years and it's still not done. Same applies to City Centre -- on the books since 2005 and probably another year or so before it's done.

[neonjoe]

Mattamy needs to just start building their towers here. Their neighbourhood a just appear out of nowhere. Must be something to do with standardization. A few foundation plans with different houses models on top.

[danbrotherston]

I don't think we need any of that corruption here thanks.

That being said, residential neighbourhoods take years to build out. When you build a tower, it must be done all at once. Doing it faster is more expensive.

I think it's just a cost thing, doing it more gradually saves costs.

[Acitta]

There’s plenty of room for affordable housing in Canadian cities. We just need to legalize it

[jwilliamson]

Does anyone know what the typical affordable housing contribution for large suburban SFH developments is? Do they generally set aside some houses as BMR or concentrate affordable units in the multi-unit buildings developments usually include, or do they just make a cash contribution?

[sluismcfc]

Does anyone know what the typical affordable housing contribution for large suburban SFH developments is? Do they generally set aside some houses as BMR or concentrate affordable units in the multi-unit buildings developments usually include, or do they just make a cash contribution?

IZ policies can't be applied outside of MTSA's so anything that has or will be done is of the developer's own volition, there are no requirements

[Acitta]

This is about Vancouver, but it applies everywhere. 
Too Obsessed with ‘Character’ Homes?
What to do when nostalgic aesthetics block new housing?