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Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF
Depending on how things play out at YYZ, it could make sense to connect YYZ and YKF by rail within 20-30 years.
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The airport could just buy a shuttle bus for themselves and have a baggage handler drive the one loop per day necessary to service the WestJet flight. Flight arrives, unload baggage onto carousel, take arrived passengers to major GRT interchanges while picking up departing passengers from same, unload passengers at terminal, head around back and load checked baggage onto plane. Job done.

Until there's more than a single scheduled major commercial flight per day this would totally suffice.

(I'm sure I've just simultaneously offended baggage handlers and professional drivers alike, as nothing is ever as simple as it seems to an outsider. I am happy to learn why this wouldn't/couldn't work.)
...K
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(09-26-2018, 01:52 PM)tomh009 Wrote: Depending on how things play out at YYZ, it could make sense to connect YYZ and YKF by rail within 20-30 years.

Why rail though? Assuming there is a GO station in Breslau, It just seems really strange to build a whole new mode of transportation when we have existing infrastructure that will almost certainly meet the need of whatever traffic is going from the Go station to the airport.
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(09-26-2018, 03:18 PM)SammyOES Wrote:
(09-26-2018, 01:52 PM)tomh009 Wrote: Depending on how things play out at YYZ, it could make sense to connect YYZ and YKF by rail within 20-30 years.

Why rail though?  Assuming there is a GO station in Breslau, It just seems really strange to build a whole new mode of transportation when we have existing infrastructure that will almost certainly meet the need of whatever traffic is going from the Go station to the airport.

On a 20-30 year horizon, things are necessarily fuzzy. But GO tracks to Breslau would already make it a 95% rail connection, leveraging the GO tracks for a "Kitchener-Pearson Express". The last mile, that could be rail or something else, that's relatively easily solved in the end.
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(09-26-2018, 03:08 PM)KevinT Wrote: The airport could just buy a shuttle bus for themselves and have a baggage handler drive the one loop per day necessary to service the WestJet flight.  Flight arrives, unload baggage onto carousel, take arrived passengers to major GRT interchanges while picking up departing passengers from same, unload passengers at terminal, head around back and load checked baggage onto plane.  Job done.

Until there's more than a single scheduled major commercial flight per day this would totally suffice.

(I'm sure I've just simultaneously offended baggage handlers and professional drivers alike, as nothing is ever as simple as it seems to an outsider.  I am happy to learn why this wouldn't/couldn't work.)

The baggage system at YKF requires passengers to present their checked baggage to CATSA for security screening personally, and as such, the bag truck couldn't just go airside.  As well the Transport Canada restricted area rules would preclude a "dirty" (unscreened) truck from getting anywhere near the aircraft.

Now curbside drop off of bags would be sufficient.

Coke
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(09-27-2018, 11:27 AM)Coke6pk Wrote:
(09-26-2018, 03:08 PM)KevinT Wrote: The airport could just buy a shuttle bus for themselves and have a baggage handler drive the one loop per day necessary to service the WestJet flight.  Flight arrives, unload baggage onto carousel, take arrived passengers to major GRT interchanges while picking up departing passengers from same, unload passengers at terminal, head around back and load checked baggage onto plane.  Job done.

Until there's more than a single scheduled major commercial flight per day this would totally suffice.

(I'm sure I've just simultaneously offended baggage handlers and professional drivers alike, as nothing is ever as simple as it seems to an outsider.  I am happy to learn why this wouldn't/couldn't work.)

The baggage system at YKF requires passengers to present their checked baggage to CATSA for security screening personally, and as such, the bag truck couldn't just go airside.  As well the Transport Canada restricted area rules would preclude a "dirty" (unscreened) truck from getting anywhere near the aircraft.

Now curbside drop off of bags would be sufficient.

Coke

Oh, absolutely, passengers would still have to check their baggage as normal.  I'm just talking about making the labour position multi-role, baggage handler, then bus driver, then baggage handler again -- as I doubt that either could be a full time position at YKF right now.
...K
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(09-26-2018, 03:08 PM)KevinT Wrote: The airport could just buy a shuttle bus for themselves and have a baggage handler drive the one loop per day necessary to service the WestJet flight.  Flight arrives, unload baggage onto carousel, take arrived passengers to major GRT interchanges while picking up departing passengers from same, unload passengers at terminal, head around back and load checked baggage onto plane.  Job done.

Until there's more than a single scheduled major commercial flight per day this would totally suffice.

(I'm sure I've just simultaneously offended baggage handlers and professional drivers alike, as nothing is ever as simple as it seems to an outsider.  I am happy to learn why this wouldn't/couldn't work.)

That assumes everyone who would use it live in KW, there will be some from Cambridge and Guelph,  now that service is for 3 buses and drivers with each an even smaller group of passengers. At this point the demand and the costs might rival people carpooling or uberpooling if they are so inclined.

And for the ones in KW, I would think there would be less of an appeal to those who live farther from Victoria street and would prefer a direct trip home with an uber.
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I think it would be interesting to look at the economics more. The service doesn't necessarily need to be free. If it can beat Uber / Taxi / Airport Parking it would be competitive. If it just has to run when there's actual demand registered ahead of time, you an avoid a lot of costs. And if you regularly have demand from 3 cities - that means there's probably enough justification to run the service.

But most importantly in my mind, even in the most pessimistic view we're talking about a service that costs 10s of thousands dollars/year instead of the millions that any sort of regular bus route / train would cost.
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(09-28-2018, 01:11 PM)SammyOES Wrote: I think it would be interesting to look at the economics more.  The service doesn't necessarily need to be free.  If it can beat Uber / Taxi / Airport Parking it would be competitive.  If it just has to run when there's actual demand registered ahead of time, you an avoid a lot of costs.  And if you regularly have demand from 3 cities - that means there's probably enough justification to run the service.  

But most importantly in my mind, even in the most pessimistic view we're talking about a service that costs 10s of thousands dollars/year instead of the millions that any sort of regular bus route / train would cost.

Of those 3 vehicles, are they going to one place to pick up people or doing a route to pick up people at their homes. If they are doing a route some people will have a longer travel time. So at this point are they better off taking the shuttle to save $5 vs taking a taxi to go straight to the airport. And this would be for the group that just don't offer a friend to drop them off for some beer later.


Operationally it's not too straight forward for the airport, they would need to hire a few individuals, and have an extra vehicle on hand. Since they only have one real flight it would probably need 3 hours of labour, so there will be some issues finding people to fill that role consistently, unless they come out of the GRT driver pool, which is a higher rate with extra premiums for the luggage hauling and cusomer interaction they are expected to have. Depending on union rules might limit who the on call driver is if there is a breakdown. And if there is a breakdown, a pipebursts and the shuttle is stuck in traffic, is the airport now on the hook to compensate them. 

Considering how full or empty the shuttles could potentially be all year long I can't imagine it would be much cheaper, and it is a lot of extra operations and effort to save people who have spent a few hundred dollars flying $5.

I do agree laying down tracks or having a full blown service is just not well thought out and insulting to connestoga college students who have the demand but not the service.
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I don't quite understand the problem with moving the proposed GO station, there is nothing to physically move yet; only a bit of new track would need to be put down to connect to the airport and wouldn't add that much to the route time and would have much more potential utility and potential users.

I understand the location has been vetted by MetroLinx, but there is still lots of time to re-evaluate the situation. Especially if YKF is supposed going to be taking the overflow from Pearson; it makes sense to invest a little more now to ensure that the connectivity is ready to go when (if) the overflow comes.

From what I can see the initial part of the “transit oriented development” by Thomasfield Homes (aka Hopewell Crossing or Hopewell Heights) is largely just marketing (I think Thomasfield actually own all the land south of the tracks in that area too). The high density residential, employment and commercial components come much later (if ever).
   

The first phases are a strong majority of single family homes (summer 2019) many of which will be beyond the 800m walking radius often used as a catchment area for potential active transportation users of transit. Most of the high density or medium density residential is also beyond the 800m radius. The area won't be serviced by transit any time soon so residents will need car to get school, work, groceries, or entertainment for the medium term at a minimum.

So, if the GO station was always intended as a park-and-ride sub-urban station as you can’t reach it from east Kitchener or north Cambridge by transit so anyone from those areas will be driving, and if the residents closest to the proposed station are car dependent already why not move the station to where it can serve more people?

For example:
-for Kitchener residents east of 85 and north of Ottawa to GO station @ Greenhouse Road is 12min but to one at YFK it is 11min (and even faster when the Ottawa bridge is built)
-for Kitchener residents east of 85 and south of Ottawa YFK will always be faster
-for Cambridge residents a YFK GO station will always be faster
Everyone move to the back of the bus and we all get home faster.
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(09-29-2018, 12:36 PM)Pheidippides Wrote: For example:
-for Kitchener residents east of 85 and north of Ottawa to GO station @ Greenhouse Road is 12min but to one at YFK YKF it is 11min (and even faster when the Ottawa bridge is built)
-for Kitchener residents east of 85 and south of Ottawa YFK YKF will always be faster
-for Cambridge residents a YFK YKF GO station will always be faster

Fixed that...

Coke
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(09-29-2018, 12:09 PM)darts Wrote: Of those 3 vehicles, are they going to one place to pick up people or doing a route to pick up people at their homes. If they are doing a route some people will have a longer travel time. So at this point are they better off taking the shuttle to save $5 vs taking a taxi to go straight to the airport. And this would be for the group that just don't offer a friend to drop them off for some beer later.

...

Your post has a whole lot of operational assumptions that don't necessarily need to be true. Just as one possible example, you could start the service with 1 vehicle and first-come-first-serve reservations. If someone in Guelph wants to be picked up after you've committed to picking up someone in Waterloo, they could be out of luck. There are all sorts of trade offs you can make that would scale the service to the actual demand that exists.
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(09-29-2018, 12:36 PM)Pheidippides Wrote: I don't quite understand the problem with moving the proposed GO station, there is nothing to physically move yet; only a bit of new track would need to be put down to connect to the airport and wouldn't add that much to the route time and would have much more potential utility and potential users.

Moving the track IS a big deal.  There are a whole lot of buildings / roads / natural terrain that would need to be modified to move the tracks.  Heading eastward, you can't move the track until almost fountain street.  At that point you're making a 90-degree turn south towards the airport.  After you get to the airport you're going to have to get the train back to the original track as soon as possible (or hit all sorts of other issues) which means two more almost 90-degree turns.  I can't imagine this is going to be good for trip times.

(09-29-2018, 12:36 PM)Pheidippides Wrote: Especially if YKF is supposed going to be taking the overflow from Pearson; it makes sense to invest a little more now to ensure that the connectivity is ready to go when (if) the overflow comes.

From what I can see the initial part of the “transit oriented development” by Thomasfield Homes (aka Hopewell Crossing or Hopewell Heights) is largely just marketing (I think Thomasfield actually own all the land south of the tracks in that area too). The high density residential, employment and commercial components come much later (if ever).

I don't think you get to make a case for being prepared for YKF to be the Pearson overflow airport but dismiss the Thomasfield development as marketing.  I think its extremely likely that the Thomasfield development happens long before YKF is a major airport.

(09-29-2018, 12:36 PM)Pheidippides Wrote: The first phases are a strong majority of single family homes (summer 2019) many of which will be beyond the 800m walking radius often used as a catchment area for potential active transportation users of transit. Most of the high density or medium density residential is also beyond the 800m radius. The area won't be serviced by transit any time soon so residents will need car to get school, work, groceries, or entertainment for the medium term at a minimum.

So, if the GO station was always intended as a park-and-ride sub-urban station as you can’t reach it from east Kitchener or north Cambridge by transit so anyone from those areas will be driving, and if the residents closest to the proposed station are car dependent already why not move the station to where it can serve more people?

For example:
-for Kitchener residents east of 85 and north of Ottawa to GO station @ Greenhouse Road is 12min but to one at YFK it is 11min (and even faster when the Ottawa bridge is built)
-for Kitchener residents east of 85 and south of Ottawa YFK will always be faster
-for Cambridge residents a YFK GO station will always be faster

Again, you are advocating some serious long term thinking but then only look really short term at other areas.  It's very likely that the Thomasfield (and rest of Breslau and YKF) will get public transit long before YKF becomes a major airport.

And all of your benefits of moving the station here are trivial improvements in driving time (I don't agree with the north of Ottawa assumption either) at a massive cost.
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