Walking in Waterloo Region

[danbrotherston]

I understand the opposition, but only in the context of having given up on improving the police.

I’m not sure that everybody understands that there are always police. The question is whether they are accountable to the communities in which they operate. So my perspective is that if there is a persistent problem with police culture, it needs to be addressed, but not by eliminating the police. However, the management structure and membership may need to be overhauled. Frequently I read of police abuses which make me think “that officer should be fired and blacklisted”, that is, forbidden to be employed in policing or related fields like security or the army. We need to get the right sort of person in the police force; honest people who will hold their colleagues to account rather than hiding crimes committed by them (among many other good qualities that are needed). The way to get there will depend on the force in question; I suspect some forces are already in pretty good shape, while others probably need a sizeable fraction of their officers to be fired (not just retrained, although that would be part of it).

I don't think "defund the police" actually means that there should be no police. I mean, certainly there should be someone to call to handle a domestic violence situation as danbrotherston mentioned earlier. It is tragic that some people do not feel / are not safe in calling the police to handle their situations. The system in which today's police exist is controversial, as is the law in Ontario where the police just get to set their budget and municipalities have to go with it. It is also probably true that police don't have to handle all of the situations that they handle today.

I think the idea is that the identifiable group decides on its own to appoint some of its own people to do this. So not necessarily that different from the universities encouraging their students to be good neighbours. I can even imagine the regular police calling the group-specific wardens for minor issues; if the group (whichever one it is) is willing and able to work with its members to address issues, this may be more successful than anything the police can do.

In another context, Canadian Rangers are also mostly (but not exclusively) First Nations. It depends on the buy-in from the community. The minor issues probably should be dealt with in the community, and we should use restorative justice more.

Yes, and I should also be clear, all of the people who were involved in the domestic violence calls I described were white men (and the woman victim). If I encountered a situation with a minority person where I might feel calling the police could be warranted, I would frankly, not be comfortable doing so unless I felt there was absolutely no other option...I think it's a risky thing to do.

The 'defund the police' calls I might have disagreed with some years ago, I have changed my position on them. There are a few reasons.

First and foremost, we spend an astronomical amount of money on policing, it is one of the largest expenses for our city and rarely gets any consideration for cuts, unlike our social programs. So what do we get for that enormous and uncontested spending?

One of the biggest risks for people's safety is dangerous driving. I feel the police make near zero difference here. They they be replaced with cheaper, more effective, less prejudicial (but not completely non-prejudicial) automated enforcement systems for most enforcement tasks. So I don't think spending on policing is a good value here.

In terms of "real" crime, some are solved, but you look at bike thefts, the solve rate is something like 1%. Certainly more serious crimes are solved at a much higher rate, but those are an utterly microscopic percentage of police calls and budget.  So I don't think spending on policing is giving good value here either.

So what do we spend most of our policing dollars on...it's responding to nuisance and care calls...which generally are the ones that end up the most problematic. They have neither the training, nor do they have good solutions for these problems. I feel much of the money spent on these activites would be better spent on programs to actually solve these problems instead of just enforce against them.

Now, that's all an economic argument, and absolutely applies to our region. The next arguments, I have less familiarity with in our region, and I suspect apply less, or not at all, but we'll circle back.

The police, in many US (and probably some Canadian) police forces appear to be entirely corrupt and broken. There are so many ways to explain this, literal get out of jail (well ticket) free cards they can issue to friends, their illegal driving, their unwillingness to actually hold bad apples accountable, their lies, their mass resignation in protest of any officer being held accountable for violent acts, right down the police unions supporting Donald Trump. Frankly, I think there are entire US police departments that are utterly rotten to the core, and can only be fixed by a complete teardown. In many ways this is historical, look at the history of policing in the US, it isn't a pretty picture in many places.

So lets circle back, I don't believe WRPS is in that situation, but what does concern me is the attitudes we see. I would feel a lot more comfortable if upon seeing the situation in the US and the harm their police forces are causing, and the problems that distrust of the police puts in the way of officers doing their jobs, if I felt that our police forces considered that the number one threat to their success. As it is, I hear a lot of lip service, but when you look closer, it appears to be a lot of deflection, little public denouncement of the "bad apples" that make the news, little real programs to make meaningful improvements, or even measure the problems. I mean, clearly WRPS does have some issues...their record on stopping people is apparently pretty problematic (something automated enforcement could improve).

So, not every place is the same, but more than that, not everyone's experience with police is the same, and while I used to find that hard to fathom, when looking closer, I think a strong argument is made for substantial fundamental changes to the role of police and the scope of policing. I as a citizen am not happy that I have to consider how policing will treat different people differently before I call the police, but I can only imagine how it must feel to be on the receiving end of that. Our policing needs to be better, and I'm quite certain we could make due just fine with far less of it.