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Walking in Waterloo Region
(07-14-2017, 09:08 AM)goggolor Wrote: Google Maps shows an old entrance to the church exactly where this long curb cut is, and another further down on Mill.

Is there a risk that the placement of the long strip along the former curb cut would lead a visually impaired person to walk into traffic, if they assumed this marked the corner where they're supposed to cross? Or are the two strips in the picture different textures?

That was my recollection, having a parent who lived half a block from there.
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(07-14-2017, 09:08 AM)goggolor Wrote: Google Maps shows an old entrance to the church exactly where this long curb cut is, and another further down on Mill.

Is there a risk that the placement of the long strip along the former curb cut would lead a visually impaired person to walk into traffic, if they assumed this marked the corner where they're supposed to cross? Or are the two strips in the picture different textures?

Oh, I stand corrected, then.

I share the concern of your second paragraph. Yes, it is the same texture - clearly this was first designed to be the crossing point, but later something changed.
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If they did indeed put the crosswalk in the wrong location, (which is very likely, the current trend is crossawlks that are very set back from intersections, and always perpendicular to the road,) at least they put the crosswalk in the place where I would have crossed anyway!
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@Markster unless you were going to the bus stop which is what I interpreted the curb cut as being for.
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By the way, in that pic of the Mill/Ottawa intersection, the SUV is in the approximate location of the old wooden "bus station" that marked the terminal point of the old PUC bus route. It always intrigues me to think that, seventy years ago, this was pretty much the edge of town.
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Is the big long tactile strip in Kevin's photo perhaps something bus-stop related? ie, that's where the doors are when it stops?
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(07-15-2017, 03:10 AM)Canard Wrote: Is the big long tactile strip in Kevin's photo perhaps something bus-stop related?  ie, that's where the doors are when it stops?

No, buses stop at a regular curb, not at a curb cut.

I’m 99% sure this is just a screw-up of some sort.
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I've noticed that the intersection of King Street and Willis Way in Uptown Waterloo seems to be a "beg button" crossing (where the walk light doesn't come on unless the request button is pushed in advance). I was in Uptown on Friday and two separate occasions watched groups of people waiting to cross the street get confused when the traffic light changed but the walk signal didn't. I seem to notice this more during the day so possibly this is configured for off-peak hours only?

This has to be one of the more active pedestrian intersections in Waterloo, why can't they just assume that people will always want to cross the street there?
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Thankfully they seem to know this is an issue now.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Thanks for letting us know. I will inform our traffic staff.</p>&mdash; Region of Waterloo (@RegionWaterloo) <a href="https://twitter.com/RegionWaterloo/status/884510141848199168">July 10, 2017</a></blockquote>
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(07-18-2017, 11:59 AM)goggolor Wrote: I've noticed that the intersection of King Street and Willis Way in Uptown Waterloo seems to be a "beg button" crossing (where the walk light doesn't come on unless the request button is pushed in advance). I was in Uptown on Friday and two separate occasions watched groups of people waiting to cross the street get confused when the traffic light changed but the walk signal didn't. I seem to notice this more during the day so possibly this is configured for off-peak hours only?

This has to be one of the more active pedestrian intersections in Waterloo, why can't they just assume that people will always want to cross the street there?

This kills me. Why can't we always assume people will want to cross? Unless it's a rural or sparsely used intersection that only changes on demand, I have yet to hear any good rationale for having a beg system if the light is going to change anyway.

Also, while on this issue, Father David Bauer at Erb has the same issue.
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I *think* it's the idea of only having to change the lights for maybe 5-10 seconds of flow to empty all queued cars if no pedestrians are allowed to block cars using the intersection, versus at least 15-20+ seconds required just to let pedestrians cross, and maybe more to allow advance green/post-pedestrian clearing of cars. Not that I agree with that, I just think that this is the reasoning.
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(07-18-2017, 12:38 PM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: I *think* it's the idea of only having to change the lights for maybe 5-10 seconds of flow to empty all queued cars if no pedestrians are allowed to block cars using the intersection, versus at least 15-20+ seconds required just to let pedestrians cross, and maybe more to allow advance green/post-pedestrian clearing of cars. Not that I agree with that, I just think that this is the reasoning.

This is absolutely correct, it derives from the fact that transit planners make virtually all their decisions based on the premise the goal is to optimize vehicular throughput.  

This makes a small amount of sense on roads like Fischer-Hallman, and minor side streets.  But at Willis Way and King, utterly illogical.  This frustrates me to no end, and that one has been like that for years.  Although, the one at West and Victoria pisses me off more, as I live there and routinely miss the light.

Of course, the fact is, our signal polices are extra stupid.  Yes, turning on the ped light does take longer, but there is no need for it to take 20+ seconds.  The Victoria and West intersection when crossing Victoria, for instance has only about 7 seconds of flashing, but 10+ seconds of walk.  You might think, that's great, but it really isn't.  What are the chances a ped will arrive in that 10 seconds?  It would be better for 2 seconds of walk (just long enough to notice and set off), and 7 seconds of flashing for crossing, combined with a lower delay (wait time). Right now, if you miss a light, you wait through a minimum 45 second walk sign in the other direction, plus a 15 second flashing phase. Would be much better for pedestrians to cycle the light more frequently, but again, worse (or maybe equal if you trade off less walk time) for cars.

Even worse, most lights are programmed to stay on as long as there are cars coming from the other direction (within some limits) so the detectors under the road tell the lights that cars continue to come, yet somehow, that same light won't give extra time to the pedestrian who presses the button, even if there is enough time for walk and flashing phases within the normal limits for that intersection. As a result, a pedestrian may wait at a green light for an entire light cycle, instead of the truncated one, just because there are more cars.

I can rant all day about our signal systems. Trust me.
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(07-18-2017, 12:38 PM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: I *think* it's the idea of only having to change the lights for maybe 5-10 seconds of flow to empty all queued cars if no pedestrians are allowed to block cars using the intersection, versus at least 15-20+ seconds required just to let pedestrians cross, and maybe more to allow advance green/post-pedestrian clearing of cars. Not that I agree with that, I just think that this is the reasoning.

Yeah, I'd be fine with that. The thing is though, the way it's implemented at most intersections I've seen is that you don't get any pedestrian signal at all if you don't press the button, not just a reduced time. And that's unacceptable.
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(07-18-2017, 01:09 PM)KingandWeber Wrote:
(07-18-2017, 12:38 PM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: I *think* it's the idea of only having to change the lights for maybe 5-10 seconds of flow to empty all queued cars if no pedestrians are allowed to block cars using the intersection, versus at least 15-20+ seconds required just to let pedestrians cross, and maybe more to allow advance green/post-pedestrian clearing of cars. Not that I agree with that, I just think that this is the reasoning.

Yeah, I'd be fine with that. The thing is though, the way it's implemented at most intersections I've seen is that you don't get any pedestrian signal at all if you don't press the button, not just a reduced time. And that's unacceptable.

The point is, if the signal turns on the pedestrian signal, it must provide enough time to cross the entire road.  On roads like Fischer Hallman which are 6 lanes + median + bike lanes, this is a fairly long time--for minor sidestreets it would actually have a significant impact on vehicle throughput.
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The one at Victoria and West is like that too. Miss pushing the button by a nano-second (which happens to me all the time) and legally you are supposed to wait for that cycle to finish, the opposite cycle to finish, and then proceed when your cycle finally shows walk +90 seconds later (although it is probably longer).

When I do miss pushing the button at that intersection I usually wait until all cars have making left or right turns are done and then only proceed if there is still time left to cross. By far the most dangerous part of my commute every day.
Everyone move to the back of the bus and we all get home faster.
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