Walking in Waterloo Region

[MidTowner]

Jeez...that risk honestly never would have occurred to me... What a sad thought. I hope you're wrong.

[Rainrider22]

I like how there is a tactile strip for people with vision impairment but the guide wire support extends on the sidewalk into the path creating a trip hazard for someone with or without vision impairment

[MidTowner]

This is about walking in Wellington County, but Two people hit by vehicle near University of Guelph charged for not using a crosswalk.

The article includes the usual advice from police to, among other things "always...wear bright or reflective clothing at dusk or when it's dark." But the best part was the last paragraph:

There are no marked crosswalks in the area of College Avenue and Lang Way. People would have to either walk 200 metres east to East Ring Road or 220 m west to a pedestrian-controlled crosswalk at Winegard Walk to access a marked crosswalk.

Kudos to the CBC for including that information.

[ijmorlan]

This is about walking in Wellington County, but Two people hit by vehicle near University of Guelph charged for not using a crosswalk.

The article includes the usual advice from police to, among other things "always...wear bright or reflective clothing at dusk or when it's dark." But the best part was the last paragraph:

There are no marked crosswalks in the area of College Avenue and Lang Way. People would have to either walk 200 metres east to East Ring Road or 220 m west to a pedestrian-controlled crosswalk at Winegard Walk to access a marked crosswalk.

Kudos to the CBC for including that information.

How can they be charged for not using a crosswalk if there is no crosswalk? I thought crossing was legal anywhere that a crosswalk is not provided. At one point I recall a discussion which concluded it wasn’t entirely clear how close a crosswalk had to be in order to be “provided” and therefore that one would be obligated to use it.

[KevinL]

This is literally in the middle of a university campus to boot - where pedestrian traffic should be expected. Madness.

Edit: It even has curb cuts with tactile strips! There is a full expectation that you can cross here. https://www.google.ca/maps/place/College...80.2283989

[MidTowner]

Holy moly. I assumed it was just a case of someone crossing midblock. Everything about that makes it seem like it's a place to cross. What are the tactile strips there for, to lure people with visual impairment into the road at a spot where it's apparently illegal?

[Bob_McBob]

How can they be charged for not using a crosswalk if there is no crosswalk? I thought crossing was legal anywhere that a crosswalk is not provided. At one point I recall a discussion which concluded it wasn’t entirely clear how close a crosswalk had to be in order to be “provided” and therefore that one would be obligated to use it.

Toronto Police use 30m as a rule of thumb for midblock crossings. It is absolutely unconscionable Guelph Police would charge a pedestrian for crossing at this location.

[ijmorlan]

How can they be charged for not using a crosswalk if there is no crosswalk? I thought crossing was legal anywhere that a crosswalk is not provided. At one point I recall a discussion which concluded it wasn’t entirely clear how close a crosswalk had to be in order to be “provided” and therefore that one would be obligated to use it.

Toronto Police use 30m as a rule of thumb for midblock crossings. It is absolutely unconscionable Guelph Police would charge a pedestrian for crossing at this location.

This is an example of a charge which instead of being defended, should be attacked as being frivolous. If found frivolous, as it should be in this case, the officer and their force should be penalized. Finding the person walking not guilty is not good enough.

[danbrotherston]

Toronto Police use 30m as a rule of thumb for midblock crossings. It is absolutely unconscionable Guelph Police would charge a pedestrian for crossing at this location.

This is an example of a charge which instead of being defended, should be attacked as being frivolous. If found frivolous, as it should be in this case, the officer and their force should be penalized. Finding the person walking not guilty is not good enough.

This is true, and the ones charged probably could at least have the charges dropped (if not sue the police force), but doing so takes resources, time, and expertise that many do not have.  Do not for a second believe the justice system is truly "fair".

It is unconscionable, especially as there are probably charges they could have used that would have stuck (failure to yield comes to mind), ironically, since the driver was turning, I suspect the driver *could* have been charged, as turning vehicles have a responsibility to avoid road users already in the roadway they are turning onto...but that one is more my speculation.

[goggolor]

I noticed in R&T Park today that they are doing work at both roundabouts to move the pedestrian crossovers a few feet further back from the traffic circle. I've seen this suggested many times over the years as a safety improvement but it's interesting to see it finally being enacted. Is this happening in other places too?

[danbrotherston]

I noticed in R&T Park today that they are doing work at both roundabouts to move the pedestrian crossovers a few feet further back from the traffic circle. I've seen this suggested many times over the years as a safety improvement but it's interesting to see it finally being enacted. Is this happening in other places too?

Can you show a picture of this?  The crossings were rebuilt recently, and are not marked, are they now being marked?

I know people say this about roundabouts all the time, I think they're wrong in most cases. In the R&T park the crosswalks are >8-10 meters away from the edge of the circle, even a Ford F-250 crew cab extended bed pickup is only 6.75 meters.  Thus even the largest vehicle any road should be designed for fits easily between the circle and the crosswalks, so that is the correct distance to place them, it gives a place for cars to wait while not blocking the circle.

As is, given the excessive size of the circles, pedestrians are already put 50 meters out of their way just to cross a road.

[timc]

I noticed in R&T Park today that they are doing work at both roundabouts to move the pedestrian crossovers a few feet further back from the traffic circle. I've seen this suggested many times over the years as a safety improvement but it's interesting to see it finally being enacted. Is this happening in other places too?

I don't think those are pedestrian crossings. If you look more closely, they are angled towards the bike lanes, suggesting that they are for cyclists that do not want to ride through the roundabout.

[MidTowner]

I can't find an accompanying article on CBC, but a few weeks ago the City of Kitchener's Director of Infrastructure or Transportation or something similar was commenting on the possibility of protected bike lanes in roundabouts, and included mention of plans to reduce people getting his by cars, by moving the crosswalks further away from the intersections.

The logic is impeccable to me: obviously you could reduce the number of people getting hit by cars while walking to practically zero if you make walking so inconvenient that nobody does it.

[robdrimmie]

I think this is the article: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener...-1.5352984

It includes:

Barry Cronkite, director of transportation for the City of Kitchener says changing the current roundabout at Huron and Strasburg to a a Dutch-influenced version would place a higher priority on vulnerable users, such as pedestrians and cyclists.

"There'd be an outer ring that's dedicated strictly for cycling facilities ... and we would highlight it with green paint," said Cronkite.

"We would pull the [pedestrian] crossings ... farther away from the circle itself."

[danbrotherston]

I think this is the article: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener...-1.5352984

It includes:

Barry Cronkite, director of transportation for the City of Kitchener says changing the current roundabout at Huron and Strasburg to a a Dutch-influenced version would place a higher priority on vulnerable users, such as pedestrians and cyclists.

"There'd be an outer ring that's dedicated strictly for cycling facilities ... and we would highlight it with green paint," said Cronkite.

"We would pull the [pedestrian] crossings ... farther away from the circle itself."

I can't find an accompanying article on CBC, but a few weeks ago the City of Kitchener's Director of Infrastructure or Transportation or something similar was commenting on the possibility of protected bike lanes in roundabouts, and included mention of plans to reduce people getting his by cars, by moving the crosswalks further away from the intersections.

The logic is impeccable to me: obviously you could reduce the number of people getting hit by cars while walking to practically zero if you make walking so inconvenient that nobody does it.

So the crosswalks at that roundabout are close to the roundabout, the closest is only 4 meters, and others are 6 or 7.  I personally believe this is still acceptable, but CoK does not, but even then, they are moving the back to only 8 meters (the position of the crosswalks in the other roundabouts we were discussing).  Others have argued for more, but as the engineer points out moving them farther back reduces compliance.