Welcome Guest! In order to take advantage of all the great features that Waterloo Region Connected has to offer, including participating in the lively discussions below, you're going to have to register. The good news is that it'll take less than a minute and you can get started enjoying Waterloo Region's best online community right away. Click here to get started.


Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Parking in Waterloo Region
#46
I think we tend to underestimate the motivations and intelligence of people, sometimes honestly and sometimes from a sense of self-inflated purpose. People will use the Market if it's in their best interest. A parking garage needs to be maintained, and we shouldn't be subsidizing it.
Reply
#47
(01-13-2015, 09:49 AM)MidTowner Wrote: Spokes is right that the right price needs to be found for parking, especially if it's over-subscribed at its current price ("free").


We are already there. The first n spots are free, overflow above that ends up in the various paid lots around the market. So no, there is no need to change the basic price structure, particularly considering the slow down in entry and exit from the already slow to enter parking lot.
Reply
#48
(01-13-2015, 10:30 AM)schooner77 Wrote: I think we tend to underestimate the motivations and intelligence of people, sometimes honestly and sometimes from a sense of self-inflated purpose. People will use the Market if it's in their best interest.  A parking garage needs to be maintained, and we shouldn't be subsidizing it.

Not in the past. Back when there was a charge for parking people would simply not go there. Now the market is thriving it could weather a minor charge, which I doubt is worth the hassle. How about asking the merchants instead to chip in the parking fee, like we do in a mall.
Reply
#49
(01-13-2015, 01:09 PM)BuildingScout Wrote: We are already there. The first n spots are free, overflow above that ends up in the various paid lots around the market. So no, there is no need to change the basic price structure, particularly considering the slow down in entry and exit from the already slow to enter parking lot.

I'm no expert, but how much does a pay system slow entry into a parking lot? An automated system spits out a parking ticket pretty quickly, doesn't it? Also, the flow of the lot is currently being impeded by the motorists that you say are entering it to find it full to exit it to seek parking elsewhere.

Re: asking merchants to pay for parking. They will seek that cost from their customers. The effect will be a subsidy by market patrons who do not park to market patrons who do park. This is obviously common in retail like you say, but it's even less savoury when it's a publically-owned outfit facilitating the subsidy.
Reply
#50
Merchants subsidize upkeep of the stair case leading to King st which is only used by pedestrians. I'll organize a group of drivers to ask for pedestrians to pay for that, so those of us who drive to the market do not subsidize their walk up paths. We drivers can also refuse to subsidize sidewalk snow shoveling.

My point is that we can be fair and reasonable or we can be antagonistic. Charging a fee for parking to a place where patrons are spending money in is antagonistic. Most places go in the other direction: ticket is validated with proof of purchase.

It is also antagonistic because public transportation is not an option. I was against blanket restrictions for parking around the Aud during Rangers games, but in favor of them once buses from various parts to the Aud were added (two years ago I was a frequent rider of the Kitchener City Hall-Aud bus).
Reply
#51
I'm assuming that you're being facetious with the first paragraph. It's worth remembering that all motorists are occasionally pedestrians, but not all pedestrians are ever motorists. I might also suggest that you think about how much it might cost to build and maintain a multi-level parking garage.

Recovering part of the cost of parking facilities from the people actually benefitting from those parking facilities sounds fair to me. I don't see how that could possibly be viewed as antagonistic. It's beneficial to people parking there, too: instead of finding the lot full, the charge can be set to guarantee that there are always at least a few spots available to those who want them.

There are a number of buses that run on King, Weber and Frederick: what do you mean that "public transportation is not an option"?
Reply
#52
The most frustrating thing about the Market parking is that the best parking is also the free parking. All of those external lots that charge for parking are also worse places to park. There's a double incentive to simply get in the traffic jam, and wait it out to get into the underground parking.
Reply
#53
(01-13-2015, 02:48 PM)MidTowner Wrote: Recovering part of the cost of parking facilities from the people actually benefitting from those parking facilities sounds fair to me. I don't see how that could possibly be viewed as antagonistic. It's beneficial to people parking there, too: instead of finding the lot full, the charge can be set to guarantee that there are always at least a few spots available to those who want them.

There are a number of buses that run on King, Weber and Frederick: what do you mean that "public transportation is not an option"?

Insisting that it be a fee based recovery can be antagonistic considering that there are so many services we provide on a non-fee basis. It depends on the fee, ease of charging, purpose of the subsidy and alternate channels for revenue recovery such as merchant subsidized parking in malls.

What do I mean by "public transportation is not an option"? I mean precisely that. Most people in town live quite a few snowed-in sidewalks away from a bus stop, so pushing a walking cart full of produce down the street is not an option.

This is contrast to say, going dinning downtown, for which taking public transit can be a lot more reasonable.
Reply
#54
Y'all know that the market parking is still free on Saturdays? Come earlier if you want to park in the underground, it's reality that there are only so many cars you can put in the space around the market and I honestly think if the few bucks drivers gotta pay is too big of an expense then go ahead and drive to Zehrs on a Saturday morning and go shopping instead. The cars and traffic is really the worst part of the market (aside from the actual building, it's a huge turd)

They really ought to crack down on people that idle on Eby St, by-law could probably camp out every Saturday and rake in the bucks from the ignorant.
Reply
#55
(01-13-2015, 07:38 AM)BuildingScout Wrote:
(01-13-2015, 06:59 AM)Spokes Wrote: Traffic is certainly a nightmare.  I'd be looking at charging a nominal amount on weekends.  Find out what the threshold is for what people are willing to pay.

This would only work under the assumption that there are people driving to the market that otherwise would be walking or taking the bus there. I do not believe there are such people. Some people might simply not go to the market altogether, which would reduce traffic but damage the viability of the market. So this is cutting your nose to spite your face.

Hi, I'm one of those people, though with biking instead. I'm also in a different category sometimes: those who are dissuaded from going to the market because of how bad the traffic and parking situation is - not in money, but in time. I don't care about $2 or something for parking, but I do care about the uncertainty of whether I can get into the garage at all and how long I'm going to be stuck in traffic in the block around the market.
Reply
#56
Nightmare? When I take my car to the Market, I just park in one of the King St bays. I've never had a problem. Good timing, I guess.
Reply
#57
(01-13-2015, 03:32 PM)Markster Wrote: The most frustrating thing about the Market parking is that the best parking is also the free parking.  All of those external lots that charge for parking are also worse places to park. There's a double incentive to simply get in the traffic jam, and wait it out to get into the underground parking.

The KW Racquet Club had been running $2 parking in its lot just across the street from the market. When I go to the market by car (and I strongly prefer to bike there, but sometimes that doesn't work out), I find that their lot is convenient and easier to get in, etc.
Reply
#58
I have driven my car, rode my bike and taken the bus to the market. I have not had problems with any mode of transportation. I find parking every Saturday on the street I maybe use the indoor garage when it is raining and rarely have issues. Yes it can be a pain at 11am with all the traffic, but no different then any other parking situation at a grocery store.
Reply
#59
(01-13-2015, 07:38 AM)BuildingScout Wrote:
(01-13-2015, 06:59 AM)Spokes Wrote: Traffic is certainly a nightmare.  I'd be looking at charging a nominal amount on weekends.  Find out what the threshold is for what people are willing to pay.

This would only work under the assumption that there are people driving to the market that otherwise would be walking or taking the bus there. I do not believe there are such people. Some people might simply not go to the market altogether, which would reduce traffic but damage the viability of the market. So this is cutting your nose to spite your face.

Or it's under the assumption that people are driving and would be willing to pay a small fee to park.  But I do think your right, for some it would mean people stopping attending the market which right there kills the idea.
Reply
#60
(01-13-2015, 09:49 AM)MidTowner Wrote:
(01-13-2015, 07:38 AM)BuildingScout Wrote: [quote pid='4030' dateline='1421150353']
This would only work under the assumption that there are people driving to the market that otherwise would be walking or taking the bus there. I do not believe there are such people. Some people might simply not go to the market altogether, which would reduce traffic but damage the viability of the market. So this is cutting your nose to spite your face.

There are at least some people who would be dissuaded from driving to the market because of a parking fee of x dollars, and would choose to use a different mode of transportation to get there. You're right that there are other people who (as Viewfromthe42 suggests) would go elsewhere to avoid the parking charge, even if that's not a rational economic decision because other costs are higher.

Spokes is right that the right price needs to be found for parking, especially if it's over-subscribed at its current price ("free"). There are some people who won't tolerate any parking charge because they think it's their right to have other people subsidize their transportation choices. Most people will tolerate some level of charge, beyond which they will change their behaviour somehow. It needs to be understood how they might change their behaviour- it's not true that everyone will do the same thing. But, if the garage is full now, the price needs to go up.
[/quote]

These are some of the key principals behind an article I believe called The High Price of Free Parking.  Worth a read if you haven't
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)