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Cycling in Waterloo Region
#31
(11-14-2014, 12:14 PM)BuildingScout Wrote: I don't buy it, starting from the scary quotes on engineered solution and moving on to the ridiculous: The radiant heat that will be produced by the paving will cause dieback of the old growth forest that remains in the park.

That also caught my eye. I doubt there's any old growth in Waterloo Region. It all used to be farms, yes?

This is a tiny amount of pavement compared to the amount of roads that we have around here. Also, less road traffic means less need for car-focussed roads.

I was also wondering about asphalt lifetime. Seems that without cars, it should last longer.
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#32
(11-14-2014, 03:02 PM)plam Wrote: I was also wondering about asphalt lifetime. Seems that without cars, it should last longer.

Of course. Asphalt walking paths at the university have lifetimes measured in decades.
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#33
What about the author's contention that sections of pavement are destined to wash away or collapse long before the asphalt deteriorates naturally? I've seen this happen on other paved trails.
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#34
(11-14-2014, 03:46 PM)ookpik Wrote: What about the author's contention that sections of pavement are destined to wash away or collapse long before the asphalt deteriorates naturally? I've seen this happen on other paved trails.

Worse than the gravel that is already washing away? That is clearly bad.
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#35
(11-14-2014, 03:46 PM)ookpik Wrote: What about the author's contention that sections of pavement are destined to wash away or collapse long before the asphalt deteriorates naturally? I've seen this happen on other paved trails.

As plam says, it couldn't possibly be worse than gravel. Not even close. 
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#36
But, seeing as the gravel already washes out, it may be true that asphalt may also wash out over time as well. I asked a civil engineering faculty colleague of mine: when water gets underneath asphalt, it does move the asphalt (even potentially uphill). We'll have to see what happens with this path in the next few years.
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#37
I understand the worry about the asphalt crumbling away, and it will almost certainly happen without extensive works to improve drainage with ditches on either side of the path.

However, the simply asphalt layer is much better than what's there now, and the perfect is the enemy of the good (and the budget).
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#38
(11-14-2014, 04:57 PM)plam Wrote: But, seeing as the gravel already washes out, it may be true that asphalt may also wash out over time as well. I asked a civil engineering faculty colleague of mine: when water gets underneath asphalt, it does move the asphalt (even potentially uphill). We'll have to see what happens with this path in the next few years.

Yes asphalt will eventually wash out too. But it will take a lot longer particularly if the grade was properly thought out, which we have no reason to assume it wasn't.
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#39
(11-14-2014, 04:58 PM)Markster Wrote: I understand the worry about the asphalt crumbling away, and it will almost certainly happen without extensive works to improve drainage with ditches on either side of the path.  

However, the simply asphalt layer is much better than what's there now, and the perfect is the enemy of the good (and the budget).

Yeah. In the same vein, holding out for a boardwalk is not really the right thing (and that would get far more icy in the winter). I was thinking about the paved path in Waterloo Park (not the gravel, which is terrible) and I suppose that the ditches help a lot there.
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#40
(11-14-2014, 06:08 PM)plam Wrote:
(11-14-2014, 04:58 PM)Markster Wrote: I understand the worry about the asphalt crumbling away, and it will almost certainly happen without extensive works to improve drainage with ditches on either side of the path.  

However, the simply asphalt layer is much better than what's there now, and the perfect is the enemy of the good (and the budget).

Yeah. In the same vein, holding out for a boardwalk is not really the right thing (and that would get far more icy in the winter). I was thinking about the paved path in Waterloo Park (not the gravel, which is terrible) and I suppose that the ditches help a lot there.
 All this discourse is much ado about nothing!

Example: The asphalt pathways and gravel pathways/bike trails in Waterloo Park have been there for 50 plus years ... yes they require maintenance and have been resurfaced or changed from one type to another but the world didn't fall apart regardless of what pathway type is used in one of the nicest parks in Waterloo region.
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#41
(11-14-2014, 11:25 PM)MacBerry Wrote: All this discourse is much ado about nothing!

Example: The asphalt pathways and gravel pathways/bike trails in Waterloo Park have been there for 50 plus years ... yes they require maintenance and have been resurfaced or changed from one type to another but the world didn't fall apart regardless of what pathway type is used in one of the nicest parks in Waterloo region.

I commuted on bike and on foot through Waterloo Park for quite a while. My experience would have been much better had the Laurel Trail through the park been paved.
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#42
(11-14-2014, 04:57 PM)plam Wrote: But, seeing as the gravel already washes out, it may be true that asphalt may also wash out over time as well.
That is my concern. On a flat trail away from flowing water there's no doubt that pavement will last longer. But on a sloped trail or one that's subject to flooding my concern is that water could find its way under the pavement, erode the soil below and thus cause the pavement to collapse. I've seen this happen on paved hiking/walking trails in Europe. We've all seen photos in the media of roads that have collapsed due to flooding or underground water flows (so-called Sinkholes.)

Here are paved trails on flat ground in the aftermath of last year's Calgary flood that illustrate the sorts of issues that could arise.

[Image: Calgary-20130904-00099_zps0f20641a.jpg][Image: BMF_zps1bde7d77.png]

Quote:I asked a civil engineering faculty colleague of mine: when water gets underneath asphalt, it does move the asphalt (even potentially uphill). We'll have to see what happens with this path in the next few years.
Interesting. So there is a risk.

P.S. Just to be clear, I'm not against paving this trail. I simply want to understand if washouts could still be an issue after it's done.
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#43
(11-15-2014, 09:20 AM)ookpik Wrote: Here are paved trails on flat ground in the aftermath of last year's Calgary flood that illustrate the sorts of issues that could arise.

Typically the way an asphalt trail fails is when a pothole develops it's left unpatched and then during a flood large amounts of water flow through the hole and erode the ground underneath.

Again no one is claiming that asphalt last forever or doesn't eventually need to be replaced. The point is that for every time this happens to an asphalt trail, a gravel trail washes away ten times.
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#44
Was out for a walk this afternoon. Noticed some new paving on Forwell trail and new signage. This was not here a fortnight ago. I found these signs all along the route. The city has been busy. Looks like they have done a great job on these trails. 

[Image: photo1_zps8977f5d3.jpg]
Forwell @ Dearborne

[Image: photo2_zps264b1a2e.jpg]

Inside Hillside Park.

[Image: photo3_zps6eb8a682.jpg]
University E @ Carter Ave. 
_____________________________________
I used to be the mayor of sim city. I know what I am talking about.
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#45
(12-07-2014, 06:16 PM)Drake Wrote: [Image: photo2_zps264b1a2e.jpg]

Why is the distance column headed with a bicycle icon? Is the distance different for pedestrians? Wink
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