ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[danbrotherston]

I think you are setting a pretty high bar here. Certainly all those things would absolutely help. But I also think there is a massive interest here, in painting red light cameras in a bad light.

Certainly there are places which have done corrupt things with red light cameras. Maybe those actions have reduced their effectiveness in improving safety.

But leaving that aside, the data is pretty clear. Our program and programs like ours are wildly effective even lacking many of the features you highlight.

This data is generally subverted and confused, I'd argue intentionally, because there is an aggressive and pervasive demographic which believes they have an inalienable right to break the law without consequence. These are often "law and order" folks which gives you a window into what law and order means to them--largely that it is a tool used to oppress the "other" while protecting "them". That being said, I believe the belief in the right to break traffic laws exceeds that particular problematic demographic which is why there is such aggressive opposition to red light cameras (and other automated enforcement) despite its proven effectiveness at both improving safety and also improving equity (red light cameras don't discriminate) unlike cops.

There is also a fairly strong interest from police in subverting these. While it's not 100% aligned, more automated enforcement is a threat to police budgets.

Yes, I suppose I was really taking it to the extreme. In my mind I’m thinking of the clearly corrupt and fraudulent arrangements in some US jurisdictions (company controls the system, including the timing of lights, and receives a cut of fine revenue; no surprise, they optimize for fine revenue, not for safety) and how to prevent them.

With ours, my belief is that they are timed appropriately so one is unlikely to be caught by them if one drives properly. I get the impression they are argued for as a revenue source, when they should be argued for only on the basis of safety, but that doesn’t mean their operation is completely corrupt.

Totally agreed about the people who just seem to want to be able to violate the law without repercussions. Also I’m not impressed by people who argue that the camera can’t see who is driving. Owners must be responsible for their vehicles; they should have the legal right to transfer the penalty to their authorized drivers but not the right to avoid having to deal with it at all (unless the vehicle is stolen, of course).

Yeah, owner vs operator is an issue. I agree with you but many don’t. The province has explicitly carved out for red light cameras, parking, and automated speed enforcement the right to fine the owner but because they are special carve outs automated enforcement cannot be done generally.

I like the UKs policy. The owner of the vehicle must identify the driver of a vehicle at a certain time and refusal to do so is it’s own pretty significant fine.