ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[PhilippAchtel]

No visible start to the bus terminal work, however.

That transfer point is supposed to be online for the Fall schedule in 9 weeks. You gotta wonder what they're waiting for. While we're in the subject, the roadway by the centre island looks very narrow. I think there's a similar island on the other side with concrete pillars at the corners. I hope they don't underestimate the extra width and turning radius that buses need compared to cars.

[danbrotherston]

I don't think the island is a problem for buses. It is set very far back from the intersection. The island however does obstruct the Laurel trail. Utter stupidity there.

[Coke6pk]

This old sign along the east side King in front of the Allen Square building needs to go - I don't think they actually want the old unloading zone to be on the Ion tracks:

Not an effective sign to begin with.... LOADING ZONE - 30 MIN, then what?  Visitor parking afterwards?  An "Internationally recognized symbol" of some sort should be on there. (ie. A P with a red circle and line thru it)

Coke

[panamaniac]

This old sign along the east side King in front of the Allen Square building needs to go - I don't think they actually want the old unloading zone to be on the Ion tracks:

Not an effective sign to begin with.... LOADING ZONE - 30 MIN, then what?  Visitor parking afterwards?  An "Internationally recognized symbol" of some sort should be on there. (ie. A P with a red circle and line thru it)

Coke

Not to go off on a tangent (so unlike me!) but the only way to misunderstand that loading zone sign would be wilfully.

[Coke6pk]

Not an effective sign to begin with.... LOADING ZONE - 30 MIN, then what?  Visitor parking afterwards?  An "Internationally recognized symbol" of some sort should be on there. (ie. A P with a red circle and line thru it)

Coke

Not to go off on a tangent (so unlike me!) but the only way to misunderstand that loading zone sign would be wilfully.

Or an ineffective knowledge of English.  That's why the HTA mandates symbols for the majority of offences.  [Parking on private property is the only one I can remember that needs to be signed, but doesn't require a graphic]. 

What sign as a tourist would you prefer:

   

OR

   

** EDIT : Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread.... I'll stand down...   ** 

[Canard]

In Europe all of the signs that are important are just symbols. They aren't in any language, because there are so many different countries with people all speaking different ones.

[nms]

No visible start to the bus terminal work, however.

That transfer point is supposed to be online for the Fall schedule in 9 weeks. You gotta wonder what they're waiting for. While we're in the subject, the roadway by the centre island looks very narrow. I think there's a similar island on the other side with concrete pillars at the corners. I hope they don't underestimate the extra width and turning radius that buses need compared to cars.

My understanding is that something was underestimated.  Someone recently tried to take a bus through that intersection either turning onto or off of that laneway and it didn't work.  It may be a back to the drawing board issue. Among other issues, there is not enough space between the tracks and the Ring Road for a bus to wait its turn to enter the 4-way stop intersection without fouling the LRT tracks.

[danbrotherston]

That transfer point is supposed to be online for the Fall schedule in 9 weeks. You gotta wonder what they're waiting for. While we're in the subject, the roadway by the centre island looks very narrow. I think there's a similar island on the other side with concrete pillars at the corners. I hope they don't underestimate the extra width and turning radius that buses need compared to cars.

My understanding is that something was underestimated.  Someone recently tried to take a bus through that intersection either turning onto or off of that laneway and it didn't work.  It may be a back to the drawing board issue. Among other issues, there is not enough space between the tracks and the Ring Road for a bus to wait its turn to enter the 4-way stop intersection without fouling the LRT tracks.

Well, I am not entirely sure it is possible to fix that particular issue (although ring road's lanes are excessively wide), but certainly if the region was to get articulated buses, there is not enough room.  I am under the impression buses are not suppose to stop on railway tracks, I do not know what the solution here will be.

Worse, that traffic island actually protrudes into the Laurel Trail by several inches.  It is really just an unnecessary and poorly designed road.

Of course, the very fact the bus terminal is needed there is a bit of an unfortunate choice IMO, but we've all had this discussion before.

[ijmorlan]

That transfer point is supposed to be online for the Fall schedule in 9 weeks. You gotta wonder what they're waiting for. While we're in the subject, the roadway by the centre island looks very narrow. I think there's a similar island on the other side with concrete pillars at the corners. I hope they don't underestimate the extra width and turning radius that buses need compared to cars.

My understanding is that something was underestimated.  Someone recently tried to take a bus through that intersection either turning onto or off of that laneway and it didn't work.  It may be a back to the drawing board issue. Among other issues, there is not enough space between the tracks and the Ring Road for a bus to wait its turn to enter the 4-way stop intersection without fouling the LRT tracks.

If this is true then there is some pretty serious incompetence on Regional/GRT staff. You don’t publish a plan saying you’re going to build a bus terminal somewhere without making sure the surrounding environment as built or planned to be built actually allows the proposed construction. This isn’t a minor screw-up like that missing curb cut on Caroline, which is unfortunate but unavoidable in a project of the magnitude of the LRT. The idea that they’re just now noticing that there is an issue with a road intersection separated by almost nothing from the LRT tracks is mind-boggling. This has been raised on this forum by hobbyists here in the peanut gallery on several occasions; is it too much to expect that one of GRT’s paid professionals would do a site visit and put on their thinking cap a little bit?

[KevinL]

Keep in mind, this entry was rebuilt by GrandLinq to the previous specifications, when it was just an entry for cars to a parking lot. The idea for building the bus terminal did not come until after the LRT construction began, and they did not wan the expense and hassle of a change order with GrandLinq.

I trust that the islands will be removed and, if possible, the roadway widened by whomever builds the bus terminal.

[timc]

I'm not a professional transit planner, but I think it would be smarter to not have the buses go through that way at all. Why can't they just come in off of Phillip Street and then out via Columbia (or Phillip again)? The access to Ring Road is a busy pedestrian area with a railroad crossing. A higher throughput would be good for transit, and the University would have their wish of fewer buses on Ring Road. The only downside is a lack of service to the west side of campus, but I think that is going to be a problem regardless.

[Markster]

I'm not a professional transit planner, but I think it would be smarter to not have the buses go through that way at all. Why can't they just come in off of Phillip Street and then out via Columbia (or Phillip again)?

The only thing worse than a bus that has to detour off its route to meet a terminal, is a bus that has to make a detour that results in 100% backtracking.
What you suggest adds about 400m of extra travel distance, on top of the extra distance to get down to the terminal.

For comparison, here's the distance along Columbia from
Westmount to Albert: 2.04 km
Westmount to Albert via bus terminal using Ring Rd and Philip: 2.56 km
Westmount to Albert via bus terminal using only Philip: 3.06 km

[timc]

You are right about that. If you're coming from Westmount on Columbia, how about a right turn at the lights before Phillip, accessing the area via Lot Q? I assume this kind of thing has already been considered, so this is all just idle speculation.

[Bob_McBob]

Interesting quote in an article I came across from March. By the Uptown Waterloo BIA's accounting, only two businesses out of 450 closed as a result of ION construction. I'm not sure which two businesses they're referring to or whether I would attribute their closure to construction, but it's nice to see an official source paint a different picture from the "dozens" of small businesses bankruptcies everyone seems to believe ION caused.

http://www.lfpress.com/2017/03/09/waterl...ansit-plan

Years of painful roadwork are just about done in Waterloo Region — it built light-rail rapid transit, construction of which is far more disruptive than London’s bus-only plans — and many early fears appear to have been unfounded.

“Was there fear and frustration? There was when construction started (in 2014),” said Patti Brooks, executive director of the 450-member Uptown Waterloo Business Improvement Area. “One hundred per cent of the kudos go to our businesses for doing what they needed to do.”

In the end, she says, “We only had two businesses that closed due to construction.”

[jamincan]

The stop light at Breithaupt and King is on, although it seems to only be blinking red for the time being.