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Lime Scooter Share
(04-02-2019, 09:13 AM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(04-02-2019, 09:08 AM)Spokes Wrote: Scootering in the snow?  Not my cup of tea!  

Wouldn't the snow/salt/water do damage to the scooters?

No more than an ebike.

They have to be sealed to water and salt anyway.  They're probably largely aluminum.

Salt is the worst thing for aluminum.
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(04-03-2019, 09:11 AM)Rainrider22 Wrote:
(04-02-2019, 09:13 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: No more than an ebike.

They have to be sealed to water and salt anyway.  They're probably largely aluminum.

Salt is the worst thing for aluminum.

I'm not saying it isn't, but this is opposed to building it out of steel, which salt and water is far far more harmful to.
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Also scooters are much lower to the ground than bikes, so likely more contact with the elements.
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I love these scooters, but I sure dislike some of their users.

Today while heading for lunch I passed one parked in the middle of the sidewalk on Columbia at Regina, then on my way back I passed a (presumably) student riding one south from Columbia on Albert street.  Way outside of the pilot zone in both cases!

I know from experience that these things slow down quite a bit when they think you're out of the pilot zone due to bad GPS tracking, so presumably when you're actually outside of the pilot zone it would be the same deal.  Apparently however that's not enough to stop these clueless users.  I think they should de-power the scooters altogether if they're more than a block outside the zone, and straight up lock their wheels the moment they stop more than a block outside of the pilot zone.  That or at least levy a penalty charge for parking them more than a block outside the zone, with temporary account suspensions for habitual offenders.  Just turning down the power clearly isn't enough of a deterrent.  Sad
...K
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(04-03-2019, 04:55 PM)KevinT Wrote: I love these scooters, but I sure dislike some of their users.

Today while heading for lunch I passed one parked in the middle of the sidewalk on Columbia at Regina, then on my way back I passed a (presumably) student riding one south from Columbia on Albert street.  Way outside of the pilot zone in both cases!

I know from experience that these things slow down quite a bit when they think you're out of the pilot zone due to bad GPS tracking, so presumably when you're actually outside of the pilot zone it would be the same deal.  Apparently however that's not enough to stop these clueless users.  I think they should de-power the scooters altogether if they're more than a block outside the zone, and straight up lock their wheels the moment they stop more than a block outside of the pilot zone.  That or at least levy a penalty charge for parking them more than a block outside the zone, with temporary account suspensions for habitual offenders.  Just turning down the power clearly isn't enough of a deterrent.  Sad

So I don't think that taking a scooter outside of the arbitrary pilot zone would make me dislike the rider in any way.  If you're testing a transportation system, to the user, the pilot area seems like a ridiculous setup, I'm not going to fault anyone for acting naturally.

I also fully believe that this is not only okay with, but perhaps intended by the company and probably at least some of the city government and council.

That being said, I absolutely do dislike many of the scooter riders, just as I dislike many cyclists, and also many car drivers...the difference being I'm annoyed at bad scooter riders, and I'm imperiled by bad drivers....well, I guess I'm preaching to the choir.

But it really doesn't bother me when the scooters are outside the zone...it's pretty natural...I figure you might as well be complaining about people walking on the natural desire line across the grass.
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My disliking them stems from the fear that these users will get the whole thing rejected after the pilot ends.
...K
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(04-03-2019, 09:52 PM)KevinT Wrote: My disliking them stems from the fear that these users will get the whole thing rejected after the pilot ends.

I really don't think that's likely.  Like I said, I'm pretty sure the fact that the scooters leave the pilot area is by design, and with full understanding.  But even if it wasn't, the failure of arbitrary restrictions in the pilot area isn't a logical reason to stop a full rollout.

I think there are bigger more important questions of whether this should be rolled out.  I prefer docked systems far more...especially with electric vehicles like this.  The system the lime uses for charging in places with full rollouts I believe to be a social negative, and whether you believe the scooters are a net positive or negative in terms of transportation, it is clear that a docked system could mitigate much of the harm these systems do cause.

That being said, the biggest obstacle to rolling this out is the province, which would have to change their laws.
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(04-03-2019, 10:53 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(04-03-2019, 09:52 PM)KevinT Wrote: My disliking them stems from the fear that these users will get the whole thing rejected after the pilot ends.

I really don't think that's likely.  Like I said, I'm pretty sure the fact that the scooters leave the pilot area is by design, and with full understanding.  But even if it wasn't, the failure of arbitrary restrictions in the pilot area isn't a logical reason to stop a full rollout.

I think there are bigger more important questions of whether this should be rolled out.  I prefer docked systems far more...especially with electric vehicles like this.  The system the lime uses for charging in places with full rollouts I believe to be a social negative, and whether you believe the scooters are a net positive or negative in terms of transportation, it is clear that a docked system could mitigate much of the harm these systems do cause.

That being said, the biggest obstacle to rolling this out is the province, which would have to change their laws.

I dislike this trend that tech companies feel that they need to be disruptive, which apparently means flouting and disregarding laws and regulations. That they should be reward for that behaviour is anathema to me.
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(04-04-2019, 07:47 AM)jamincan Wrote:
(04-03-2019, 10:53 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I really don't think that's likely.  Like I said, I'm pretty sure the fact that the scooters leave the pilot area is by design, and with full understanding.  But even if it wasn't, the failure of arbitrary restrictions in the pilot area isn't a logical reason to stop a full rollout.

I think there are bigger more important questions of whether this should be rolled out.  I prefer docked systems far more...especially with electric vehicles like this.  The system the lime uses for charging in places with full rollouts I believe to be a social negative, and whether you believe the scooters are a net positive or negative in terms of transportation, it is clear that a docked system could mitigate much of the harm these systems do cause.

That being said, the biggest obstacle to rolling this out is the province, which would have to change their laws.

I dislike this trend that tech companies feel that they need to be disruptive, which apparently means flouting and disregarding laws and regulations. That they should be reward for that behaviour is anathema to me.

There was a very good talk about this at True North last year. Basically the thesis was that we can thank Uber for this, they basically proved breaking the law is a successful business model...  before that, the claim is VCs wouldn't touch something like that.

I did have a realization however, that this isn't the first time breaking laws has been part of a business model...delivery companies have been doing it for years. Parking illegally is their bread and butter.

To equate that with disruption however...is tricky. Disruption is a change in the status quo...some parts of the status quo are good, and some are bad. I had no love for the taxi industry, doesn't mean I support Uber, but I support the concept of disrupting taxis. That being said, there will always be someone opposed to any disruption, the status quo wouldn't be...er...quo...if it didn't benefit someone. You can disrupt without breaking the laws IF (big if), the government officials are not 'corrupt' towards those benefitted by the status quo, i.e., you cannot disrupt an industry where the politicians are making laws to protect the status quo.

That being said, I do wish that tech companies and industry had more of a focus on actual social good, beyond some "green" initiatives, and "ra ra freedom" claims. There have been a large number of seriously negative social implications of major new tech in the past few years, the scooters on sidewalks is a relatively minor example I think, for that matter, I think the labor model for charging them is a bigger social problem. It's one reason I like Drop Mobility (our bike share provider), they seem to make this a focus of their company--I wouldn't mind seeing how they do scooters.
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(04-03-2019, 10:53 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I think there are bigger more important questions of whether this should be rolled out.  I prefer docked systems far more...especially with electric vehicles like this.  The system the lime uses for charging in places with full rollouts I believe to be a social negative, and whether you believe the scooters are a net positive or negative in terms of transportation, it is clear that a docked system could mitigate much of the harm these systems do cause.

Interesting, as I see docks as an anchor working against adoption. There's a lot of value in the scooters as last mile connectors between transit stops, homes, workplaces, and shopping/eating destinations, but unless every destination has a dock it clearly doesn't work in a "thou shalt dock" system which creates a new last 1/2 mile problem. Dockless is the way to be, as long as scooters aren't left blocking doors and pedestrian rights of way.

Speaking of, the scooter I saw yesterday on Columbia at Regina was left in the middle of the sidewalk at a 45 degree angle. It would take no time at all for the able-bodied scooter rider to simply park it on the boulevard, yet it's an insurmountable obstacle to anyone using that sidewalk in a wheelchair or with a walker.

*THAT* is why I strongly dislike some scooter users whilst loving the scooters...
...K
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(04-04-2019, 11:22 AM)KevinT Wrote:
(04-03-2019, 10:53 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I think there are bigger more important questions of whether this should be rolled out.  I prefer docked systems far more...especially with electric vehicles like this.  The system the lime uses for charging in places with full rollouts I believe to be a social negative, and whether you believe the scooters are a net positive or negative in terms of transportation, it is clear that a docked system could mitigate much of the harm these systems do cause.

Interesting, as I see docks as an anchor working against adoption.  There's a lot of value in the scooters as last mile connectors between transit stops, homes, workplaces, and shopping/eating destinations, but unless every destination has a dock it clearly doesn't work in a "thou shalt dock" system which creates a new last 1/2 mile problem.  Dockless is the way to be, as long as scooters aren't left blocking doors and pedestrian rights of way.

Speaking of, the scooter I saw yesterday on Columbia at Regina was left in the middle of the sidewalk at a 45 degree angle.  It would take no time at all for the able-bodied scooter rider to simply park it on the boulevard, yet it's an insurmountable obstacle to anyone using that sidewalk in a wheelchair or with a walker.

*THAT* is why I strongly dislike some scooter users whilst loving the scooters...

Really, the only feasible way I see to solve this is docks, but feel free to provide alternative ideas.

That being said, I don't believe docks have to be an obstacle...old school bike share docks are needlessly large and complicated, the modern docks which work with dockless bikes and scooters can be small and easy to install, solar powered so no utilities are required, they're basically just a bike rack, you can have one on every block. Yes, now you have to walk up to a block to your house from the dock, it's not a huge obstacle...and leaving your scooter in front of your house on a small side street isn't ideal either, its not particularly available to most people then.  It also makes them more available, you can go to the nearest dock and maybe/probably find one, instead of having to find the scooter on the map (I once found a scooter in the vestibule of a building...behind a locked door). Docking the scooters also solves the charging problem very well.
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(04-03-2019, 10:53 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: That being said, the biggest obstacle to rolling this out is the province, which would have to change their laws.

Indeed. Under the current legislation, riding one of these scooters outside the pilot area is illegal.
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