Grand River Transit

[taylortbb]

The 21 was a full bus route. My understanding is this new route is a new service concept for rural areas, more similar to the bus plus routes. Smaller vehicles, contract drivers, etc. Ridership required to sustain it should be correspondingly lower.

[MidTowner]

I think that's correct, that this is something more like Bus Plus, and will require lower ridership to sustain it.

And, of course, who knows what ridership the Prime Ministers' statues at Kilbride will attract!

In seriousness again, this seems like a good plan with smaller vehicles to serve a niche in one of the townships. I think a lot is stacked against it in terms of the density of the areas it's serving, but I've got my fingers crossed- one day, maybe similar services can serve the various townships and supplement car ownership so households can choose whether or not to add that second or third vehicle, for instance.

[timc]

If I lived in the townships, I would love to have regular transit service into the city. I remember looking at housing out of town, and we would have been pretty much forced to have a second vehicle. There are several places in the city itself where that is a reality.

[KevinL]

The new fareboxes are on their way! Key features include custom-printed transfers which will be machine-readable. Also, no more machine-accepted tickets - a temporary box will be supplied for those until the farecards come in - nor bills.



More here.

[chutten]

They're replacing a system operated by a trained professional with a system that needs to be operated by any member of the public, individually, in series.

Yeah, no way this is going to be slower.

I understand the requirement to have what I call colloquially the "boop" so that riders can tap their farecards and enter the transit. And once the farecards are in force, this approach can perhaps be approximately as fast and accurate as the previous "driver presses a button for passes and transfers, users insert change or tickets" system... but I somehow doubt the new farebox will accept "boops" as quickly as the old farebox could accept button presses.

At least the slowness of tickets will be removed.

What are the chances that (for iXpress buses, maybe?) they put one at the front and one by the back door so users can enter and exit by both? (turn the bus into a subway car)

And how will the UW/WLU passes work? Will the WATCARD/ONECARD have to update to have NFC payment tech embedded that students will then have monthly passes loaded on? Or will students just be granted monthly pass products which they can then load onto their easygo card (sold separately)?

(( I note that this will have an interesting effect on students who assumed for their in-town co-op that they'd be able to continue using their student ID for transit. I'm almost certain the Universities will load four months' passes on at a time, not a year. So if you are on co-op you're on your own. Will this increase revenue for monthly passes or decrease ridership? ))

[Viewfromthe42]

I'd at least hope that when we get articulated buses (so many plans now show them), for the busier routes, we'd see all-door boarding for tap-on customers.

That said, I'm curious how Ottawa and Toronto did/do their ridership with all-door boarding. For years, anyone with a pass in Ottawa could get on any door. Those with transfers might also do so. While OCTranspo knew that it had sold a monthly pass or the original transfer-generating trip, all subsequent trip information wasn't guaranteed. You could go your entire month without ever showing your pass to a driver, and none of your boardings or transfers would be counted towards ridership.

[timio]

There are a number of subway stations in Toronto with open transfer areas where there is no way to track how many people make the transfer. I used to transfer at Finch station regularly and there was sometimes no driver on the bus when I boarded.

[MidTowner]

I didn’t know that about Ottawa. In Hamilton, bendy buses do not have rear-door entry, but at times on really busy routes at Mac there will be another staff there at the rear door (seriously) checking passes. LTC has had bendy buses for a number of years, never allowed rear-door entry, and as far as I know still do not.

With the bendy buses, it makes total sense, and when the operator is no longer the one using the machine, there’s no reason not to allow it. On regular buses, I think front-entry, rear-exit makes sense. It can waste precious time when someone decides to get off from the front door, and I can’t imagine a net time savings if at both doors boarders need to wait for people getting off to start boarding.

[Markster]

They're replacing a system operated by a trained professional with a system that needs to be operated by any member of the public, individually, in series.

Yeah, no way this is going to be slower.

There are plenty of transit systems that use these kinds of fareboxes, and they can work quite fast. There's only so fast that people can file into a bus right now. Even when a driver is able to visually scan passes, and manually punch the button, in a big crowd, the passengers just get held up filtering into the bus.
As you say, it will be faster than the manual use of tickets currently, so I really think that boarding speed will come out in a wash. (Save for the adjustment period, where people will be a little slow, learning the new system)

What are the chances that (for iXpress buses, maybe?) they put one at the front and one by the back door so users can enter and exit by both? (turn the bus into a subway car)

I don't think we'll be seeing this any time soon. GRT is fairly resistant to innovation. Anyway, the major advantage to this is on articulated buses, which we won't have for at least 5 years.

And how will the UW/WLU passes work? Will the WATCARD/ONECARD have to update to have NFC payment tech embedded that students will then have monthly passes loaded on? Or will students just be granted monthly pass products which they can then load onto their easygo card (sold separately)?

Part of the electronic fare card tender was a requirement for support of termly bus passes for the universities. It was one of the things that Presto failed. Presumably there is a solution, and yes, students will be getting an EasyGO card. I haven't seen any specifics though.

(( I note that this will have an interesting effect on students who assumed for their in-town co-op that they'd be able to continue using their student ID for transit. I'm almost certain the Universities will load four months' passes on at a time, not a year. So if you are on co-op you're on your own. Will this increase revenue for monthly passes or decrease ridership? ))

A few years ago, Feds and GRT worked out an arrangement that U-passes were valid for off-terms. (It was coupled with a ~%20 increase in the price of the U-pass). I assume that this deal will continue.

[Viewfromthe42]

I really hope that in addition to putting in cash and pressing the (I presume) first of four buttons for a transfer, you could put in more cash and press a separate button for a day- and/or family-pass to print out instead. Same with cash-loaded cards, having the option to tap the reader, but then select the option of deducting (and rest of day functioning) for a day- or family-pass.

[tomh009]

The electronic fare cards should significantly reduce the use of cash, which in itself should much speed up payment. And the NFC beep on monthly/term fare cards should be quicker than a driver visual check of those cards.

[timc]

Maybe it's because I ride on buses near the universities more often than not, but I don't see many cash fares. Drivers are also pretty quick at pressing buttons.

One thing that I still haven't seen an answer for is whether monthly passes will be transferable. I haven't seen anything about photo identification being required, so does that mean that anyone can use the card if it has a pass loaded?

[KevinL]

One thing that I still haven't seen an answer for is whether monthly passes will be transferable. I haven't seen anything about photo identification being required, so does that mean that anyone can use the card if it has a pass loaded?

That's my understanding - a typical generic EasyGo card will be able to be used by whoever is carrying it. That much will be similar to Presto.

[plam]

One thing that I still haven't seen an answer for is whether monthly passes will be transferable. I haven't seen anything about photo identification being required, so does that mean that anyone can use the card if it has a pass loaded?

That's my understanding - a typical generic EasyGo card will be able to be used by whoever is carrying it. That much will be similar to Presto.

The Montreal OPUS cards come in two flavours: a generic transferable one and a photo-enabled reduced fare one. I'd imagine EasyGo would do the same thing.

[Section ThirtyOne]

One thing that I still haven't seen an answer for is whether monthly passes will be transferable.

It would be great if they were; how do other cities with electronic cards handle monthly passes?