Welcome Guest! In order to take advantage of all the great features that Waterloo Region Connected has to offer, including participating in the lively discussions below, you're going to have to register. The good news is that it'll take less than a minute and you can get started enjoying Waterloo Region's best online community right away. Click here to get started.

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
GO Transit
Okay, so I'm liking this, according to The Star's article on it:


Quote:Metrolinx plans to issue a request for proposals for RER at the end of 2018. The winning consortium will be responsible for designing, building, operating, and maintaining the rail network, and it will be up to the bidders to propose either traditional electrification or hydrogen trains.

Sounds like it's safely out of meddling political hands.  The consortium, experts in their field, will no doubt go with whichever option makes the most economic sense for the operating period of the contract, which I suspect would be at least 20 years.  Sanity will prevail.
...K
Reply
The way I think about the hydrogen fuel cell thing is this.

If an alien were to land on our planet, and look at the two options that were on the table, they'd probably say something like:

"Wait, you're thinking about putting wires on towers up for hundreds of kilometres??"

[Image: 1200px-Shinkansen_E4_series_entering_Omiya.jpg]

I'm not saying either is right, I'm just saying we should just keep an open mind.

It's kind of exciting to think we could be the first country in the world with a massive network of fuel cell powered trains.

(I'm all for electrification via conventional means, but I'm also all for trying out new technologies.  As long as it's not stupid.)
For daily ion construction updates, photos and general urban rail news, follow me on twitter! @Canardiain
Reply
(Yesterday, 06:01 PM)KevinT Wrote: Sounds like it's safely out of meddling political hands.  The consortium, experts in their field, will no doubt go with whichever option makes the most economic sense for the operating period of the contract, which I suspect would be at least 20 years.  Sanity will prevail.

Sadly, this kind of thinking is why we have a mess of overhead catenary down our streets, instead of inductive power transfer (PRIMOVE) for our LRV's on ION. A technology was available which could have been amazing, but we went with "Tried and true" because reasons.

I cried a little inside riding the H-Bahn in Dortmond and Dusseldorf thinking about how it would have solved all the problems of getting to Cambridge... and been built in a third of the time... for a third of the money... and and and...
For daily ion construction updates, photos and general urban rail news, follow me on twitter! @Canardiain
Reply
(Yesterday, 08:41 PM)Canard Wrote: The way I think about the hydrogen fuel cell thing is this.

If an alien were to land on our planet, and look at the two options that were on the table, they'd probably say something like:

"Wait, you're thinking about putting wires on towers up for hundreds of kilometres??"

[Image: 1200px-Shinkansen_E4_series_entering_Omiya.jpg]

I'm not saying either is right, I'm just saying we should just keep an open mind.

It's kind of exciting to think we could be the first country in the world with a massive network of fuel cell powered trains.

(I'm all for electrification via conventional means, but I'm also all for trying out new technologies.  As long as it's not stupid.)

“Open mind” means that the hydrogen power storage research project should go ahead. It absolutely does not mean that we should consider it for a project which we are planning now. It’s simply not at the point where it is eligible to be considered for a project being planned now. Anybody who is promoting hydrogen storage for a current project is either trying to sell something, is excessively enthusiastic, or is trying to kill the project by causing distraction and delay.

I can’t help but point out that it’s weird to complain about stringing wires up on towers for hundreds of kilometres when the proposal is to grade a 10m right-of-way to a low curvature, low grade state, lay down thousands of concrete ties, one every 50cm or so, and clip large heavy steel rails to them for the same distance. By comparison to all that, stringing the wires is pretty easy. Note that in many places, wires are strung for longer distances without any railway to go with them, for the purpose of power transmission.

Of course, if aliens have figured out how to make hydrogen energy storage work well, they might indeed wonder why we’re still using OCS.
Reply
(Yesterday, 08:41 PM)Canard Wrote: The way I think about the hydrogen fuel cell thing is this.

If an alien were to land on our planet, and look at the two options that were on the table, they'd probably say something like:

"Wait, you're thinking about putting wires on towers up for hundreds of kilometres??"

[Image: 1200px-Shinkansen_E4_series_entering_Omiya.jpg]

I'm not saying either is right, I'm just saying we should just keep an open mind.

It's kind of exciting to think we could be the first country in the world with a massive network of fuel cell powered trains.

(I'm all for electrification via conventional means, but I'm also all for trying out new technologies.  As long as it's not stupid.)
Is it just me, r does that train look like it has a grumpy face..
Reply
(Yesterday, 05:14 PM)KevinT Wrote: My understanding is that hydrogen storage isn't as space efficient as diesel, so the trains have to refuel more often.  
The weight of the hydrogen tanks might be 50% more than that of diesel tanks. Not clear to me what the volume would be.
Catenary-equipped trains will be the lightest, I expect.
Reply
I believe the tanks in the Toyota Mirai (fuel cell vehicle) are made of carbon fibre, so they might actually be lighter than the equivalent steel gas tank for the same volume.

You're for sure right that a train powered from OCS (or third rail or some other means) is always going to be the lightest. Every other option needs to have at least the same "guts" as a conventional electric train (motors + control equipment), plus a bunch of other "stuff". In the case of a conventional Diesel-Electric loco, it's the generator, engine and fuel. In the case of a hydrogen fuel cell powered train, it'd be the fuel cells themselves as well as the tanks and the fuel as the adder. Which probably isn't as heavy as the adder in a Diesel-Electric engine, but would lie somewhere in between.
For daily ion construction updates, photos and general urban rail news, follow me on twitter! @Canardiain
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: UrbanCanoe, 2 Guest(s)

About Waterloo Region Connected

Launched in August 2014, Waterloo Region Connected is an online community that brings together all the things that make Waterloo Region great. Waterloo Region Connected provides a news reporting service, opportunities for event promotion and other user-driven content complemented by a lively discussion forum covering topics like urban development, transportation projects, heritage issues, businesses and other issues of interest to those in Kitchener, Waterloo, Cambridge and the four Townships - North Dumfries, Wellesley, Wilmot, and Woolwich.

              User Links