Fairview Park Mall - Grand Market District

[ac3r]

It's just architectural design in practice. It's kitschy and ugly, but malls still put some effort into their designs when they make them. They would have already had a budget set aside for this and so the architects figured this would be a good look.

[ijmorlan]

Malls are increasingly becoming less relevant compared to places like the Boardwalk; I suspect that this is a move to raise the profile of Fairview and help to define a more distinctive and marketable identity for the place to prospective tenants.

“Places like the Boardwalk”; meaning shockingly poorly designed malls that have the same disconnection from the neighbourhood and other nearby commercial properties as places like Conestoga Mall or Fairview Mall, but don’t even have the ability to walk between the various merchants in a protected environment?

I will never understand why people think that the requirement to get rained on when walking from one store to another is a plus.

I would have built the Boardwalk as one enormous building fronting directly on Ira Needles running from Thorndale to Glasgow, with a passthrough to allow a vehicle entrance at University (future extension all the way to Erb). The space behind would be parking. So people could enter from the Ira Needles side on foot or from a bicycle, or from the landfill side from a vehicle. At quiet times they would use the parking spots right behind the building, while at busier times most people would have to use the parking further away (simply due to the close spots already being full).

In the future, if personal vehicle use declines, the parking lot could be progressively replaced by a duplicate building separated from the existing building by courtyards and linked by breezeways or enclosed passages.

[jamincan]

I'm not defending the design of the Boardwalk. I'm just pointing out that Fairview is competing against places like that. If Apple wanted to open a second location in the region, where would they go? Most likely not Fairview regardless, but a revamped "trendy" mall would have a better chance compared to a tired, old one.

[ac3r]

Can the two even be compared? Fairview Park Mall is in an older part of the city without a whole lot of new development around it. It has always been considered one of the main malls here so everyone knows it. It's connected to the highway, LRT, bus routes and has a fairly sizable residential area next to it. It gets a lot of regular road traffic as well. I've always thought of Fairview and Conestoga Mall as somewhere people feel more inclined to shop because it's indoors, there's seating, lots of food/drink and even a massive movie theatre.

The Boardwalk is way out in the middle of suburbia where you absolutely need a car...even to just go from one store to another. I've always thought the Boardwalk would have more competition due to its design. It feels more comparable to Sportsworld Crossing or SmartCentres Cambridge which are now both just barren wastelands nobody really goes to, which goes to show you how successful these sort of places are in the long term. A mall has and always will be somewhere people go to shop and hang out. Nobody goes to the Boardwalk or a SmartCentre development for fun.

[plam]

I'm not defending the design of the Boardwalk. I'm just pointing out that Fairview is competing against places like that. If Apple wanted to open a second location in the region, where would they go? Most likely not Fairview regardless, but a revamped "trendy" mall would have a better chance compared to a tired, old one.

I'd refer to the boardwalk as a non-place rather than a place. It still astounds me that it exists.

In a real city Apple would open a store downtown. Alas.

[westwardloo]

I avoid both at all cost.  Personally I don't like the "Look" CF is going for with the Grand Market District. Feels like a half hearted redevelopment of a mall that has seen better and brighter days. It is still completely car oriented with the theatre across the road and recladding of the sears building. Disappointing when you see some of the mixed used developments happing to other malls in Ontario.  Saying all that I will take Fairview park mall everyday of the week over the urban planning hell that is the boardwalk or sunrise centre. Unfortunately I feel like I am in the minority when it comes to power centres and walmarts. The masses eat that shit up and could care less they have to drive there then drive from store to store.

[westwardloo]

I'm not defending the design of the Boardwalk. I'm just pointing out that Fairview is competing against places like that. If Apple wanted to open a second location in the region, where would they go? Most likely not Fairview regardless, but a revamped "trendy" mall would have a better chance compared to a tired, old one.

I'd refer to the boardwalk as a non-place rather than a place. It still astounds me that it exists.

In a real city Apple would open a store downtown. Alas.

There used to be a "Apple" store at Victoria and king. That was a licensed seller of apple products though. Carbon Computing I believe.

[robdrimmie]

I'd refer to the boardwalk as a non-place rather than a place. It still astounds me that it exists.

In a real city Apple would open a store downtown. Alas.

There used to be a "Apple" store at Victoria and king. That was a licensed seller of apple products though. Carbon Computing I believe.

Yep, Carbon Computing. For a while (when construction for One Victoria started) they moved that location to City Hall, even more downtown. Their Queen Street location in Toronto is still open.

[dtkvictim]

Can the two even be compared? Fairview Park Mall is in an older part of the city without a whole lot of new development around it. It has always been considered one of the main malls here so everyone knows it. It's connected to the highway, LRT, bus routes and has a fairly sizable residential area next to it. It gets a lot of regular road traffic as well. I've always thought of Fairview and Conestoga Mall as somewhere people feel more inclined to shop because it's indoors, there's seating, lots of food/drink and even a massive movie theatre.

The Boardwalk is way out in the middle of suburbia where you absolutely need a car...even to just go from one store to another. I've always thought the Boardwalk would have more competition due to its design. It feels more comparable to Sportsworld Crossing or SmartCentres Cambridge which are now both just barren wastelands nobody really goes to, which goes to show you how successful these sort of places are in the long term. A mall has and always will be somewhere people go to shop and hang out. Nobody goes to the Boardwalk or a SmartCentre development for fun.

I don't know, I don't think I know a single person who still "goes to the mall". It basically died out completely as a concept from the people I know, and it's certainly not a place anyone I know would go to "hang out". On the other hand, during the regular year, I probably end up at the boardwalk more than a dozen times just secondhand being a passenger in a car. My parent's generation seem to genuinely love it, and prefer the boardwalk style of shopping over all of the alternatives. People in my generation I think are pretty indifferent; they are driving to their destination anyways, so it doesn't matter if it's in one wasteland or another.

[Bjays93]

I think this will turn out ok. You can like or dislike the vibe they're going for here, but it's not just Sears that's getting reclad. The whole mall is getting done in phases, there will be apartments at the back, and new multistory building in front of the disaster that is Walmart, there will be direct pedestrian access to across the street as well.

I dont think they originally intended to have a winners/Marshall's or whatever is going in here as the anchor tenant. Unfortunately covid has definitely changed some things.

[plam]

I don't know, I don't think I know a single person who still "goes to the mall". It basically died out completely as a concept from the people I know, and it's certainly not a place anyone I know would go to "hang out". On the other hand, during the regular year, I probably end up at the boardwalk more than a dozen times just secondhand being a passenger in a car. My parent's generation seem to genuinely love it, and prefer the boardwalk style of shopping over all of the alternatives. People in my generation I think are pretty indifferent; they are driving to their destination anyways, so it doesn't matter if it's in one wasteland or another.

And yet it felt to me that the malls had way more people walking around than, say, Uptown Waterloo.

[mastermind]

Malls are increasingly becoming less relevant compared to places like the Boardwalk; I suspect that this is a move to raise the profile of Fairview and help to define a more distinctive and marketable identity for the place to prospective tenants.

“Places like the Boardwalk”; meaning shockingly poorly designed malls that have the same disconnection from the neighbourhood and other nearby commercial properties as places like Conestoga Mall or Fairview Mall, but don’t even have the ability to walk between the various merchants in a protected environment?

I will never understand why people think that the requirement to get rained on when walking from one store to another is a plus.

I would have built the Boardwalk as one enormous building fronting directly on Ira Needles running from Thorndale to Glasgow, with a passthrough to allow a vehicle entrance at University (future extension all the way to Erb). The space behind would be parking. So people could enter from the Ira Needles side on foot or from a bicycle, or from the landfill side from a vehicle. At quiet times they would use the parking spots right behind the building, while at busier times most people would have to use the parking further away (simply due to the close spots already being full).

In the future, if personal vehicle use declines, the parking lot could be progressively replaced by a duplicate building separated from the existing building by courtyards and linked by breezeways or enclosed passages.

This is a really cool idea.  They could have even been four storeys, with apartments on level 2-4.

And in your 'future' scenario the duplicate buildings could get taller (because they are further away from the suburban neighbours across Ira Needles), ie. eight storeys, again with apartments level 2 and up.

And eventually you could add a third row of buildings even taller... lol now I may be getting carried away.

[neonjoe]

The only redeeming item that the Boardwalk does have is its small parkette and spashpad (pre covid). Its the nicest splashpad in the city and my wife liked taking our daughter to it because of the rubberized surface instead of concrete.
I hope that in addition to the retail development of Fairview Park that it adapts like many other shopping centres need to by becoming an entertainment and retail destination. Its a bit of an island but the concept plan for the site and the location may bring it around to being something worth visiting again.
It would have been much better if the LRT station were some how connected in a weather proof manner to the mall. This was a missed opportunity. CF has experience with this in Toronto with both TEC and Fairview Mall plus Rideau Centre in Ottawa... so I don't know why they were so resistant to it here.

[razzie13]

What remains of the former Sears exterior has now been fully illuminated at night, just like it was decades ago.

[GarthDanlor]

Yes, I vaguely remember it being illuminated...a nice touch.  I appreciate that they tried to do something a little different by keeping a chunk of the old exterior but I'm not sure it works very well. Looks disconnected. Probably would have looked better just bricking the entire building.

I know that this mall's transformation is still at it early stages so I'm willing to hold judgement for now (it  does seem like the current plan is a substantial improvement), but I think Walmart will always be the problem.  They own their space and I can't see them ever spending much money renovating the exterior of their hideous building.