Woodside Terraces | 6 fl | U/C

[plam]

So developers make only the most profitable/easiest stuff.

Right, they (attempt to) meet market demand.

Now of course they could be wrong about the market; but that will soon be apparent because the under-supplied goods will increase in price and/or be easy to sell, and the over-supplied goods will decrease in price and/or be hard to sell.

I mean, I guess I believe in the market to some extent. My position would be that, yes, one should expect for this apparent market failure to get fixed over sufficiently long timescales. Perhaps it's best not to interfere in this case. But the market isn't necessarily efficient at timescales that we care about.

[ijmorlan]

Right, they (attempt to) meet market demand.

Now of course they could be wrong about the market; but that will soon be apparent because the under-supplied goods will increase in price and/or be easy to sell, and the over-supplied goods will decrease in price and/or be hard to sell.

I mean, I guess I believe in the market to some extent. My position would be that, yes, one should expect for this apparent market failure to get fixed over sufficiently long timescales. Perhaps it's best not to interfere in this case. But the market isn't necessarily efficient at timescales that we care about.

There are times when government intervention in the market is appropriate. Safety requirements, long term flexibility, maintenance of fairness, and the forced internalization of externalities are important examples of this. Some markets should be highly regulated; for example, I think all tobacco packaging should be identical, and designed by Health Canada — the only input the manufacturers should have is which short string of letters to print on the package to identify them.

But the specific size of units to be made in condo towers is definitely not one of them. Remember, the last time we had a big discussion about unit sizes seeming to be out of whack with what some people wanted, it was because the developers were building lots of 5-bedroom units. And why where they doing that? In part because of parking requirements that were defined to be per unit. Given many students’ cooking habits (i.e., fast food), I’m surprised the developers didn’t create 10- or 20-bedroom “apartments” and really shrink their parking requirements. The point is that the problem there was an extremely ill-considered intervention in the market, in the form of parking minima, which are a bad idea in the first place and then on top of that were implemented in an incompetent fashion.

[plam]

I mean, I guess I believe in the market to some extent. My position would be that, yes, one should expect for this apparent market failure to get fixed over sufficiently long timescales. Perhaps it's best not to interfere in this case. But the market isn't necessarily efficient at timescales that we care about.

There are times when government intervention in the market is appropriate. Safety requirements, long term flexibility, maintenance of fairness, and the forced internalization of externalities are important examples of this. Some markets should be highly regulated; for example, I think all tobacco packaging should be identical, and designed by Health Canada — the only input the manufacturers should have is which short string of letters to print on the package to identify them.

But the specific size of units to be made in condo towers is definitely not one of them. Remember, the last time we had a big discussion about unit sizes seeming to be out of whack with what some people wanted, it was because the developers were building lots of 5-bedroom units. And why where they doing that? In part because of parking requirements that were defined to be per unit. Given many students’ cooking habits (i.e., fast food), I’m surprised the developers didn’t create 10- or 20-bedroom “apartments” and really shrink their parking requirements. The point is that the problem there was an extremely ill-considered intervention in the market, in the form of parking minima, which are a bad idea in the first place and then on top of that were implemented in an incompetent fashion.

I do agree that government intervention is more likely to cause unanticipated side effects in this case. But that doesn't mean that the market does the best thing at all times.

[danbrotherston]

There are times when government intervention in the market is appropriate. Safety requirements, long term flexibility, maintenance of fairness, and the forced internalization of externalities are important examples of this. Some markets should be highly regulated; for example, I think all tobacco packaging should be identical, and designed by Health Canada — the only input the manufacturers should have is which short string of letters to print on the package to identify them.

But the specific size of units to be made in condo towers is definitely not one of them. Remember, the last time we had a big discussion about unit sizes seeming to be out of whack with what some people wanted, it was because the developers were building lots of 5-bedroom units. And why where they doing that? In part because of parking requirements that were defined to be per unit. Given many students’ cooking habits (i.e., fast food), I’m surprised the developers didn’t create 10- or 20-bedroom “apartments” and really shrink their parking requirements. The point is that the problem there was an extremely ill-considered intervention in the market, in the form of parking minima, which are a bad idea in the first place and then on top of that were implemented in an incompetent fashion.

I do agree that government intervention is more likely to cause unanticipated side effects in this case. But that doesn't mean that the market does the best thing at all times.

Leaving aside intervention for the moment, smaller units are more profitable, which necessarily means the market will prefer them, even in the face of equal demand.

We are also in a situation where demand greatly outstrips supply (and in housing, there is usually going to be a large impedence mismatch due to the timeline of projects, you'll often have demand and supply mismatched), as a result, developers have near limitless demand to satisfy, so they will satisfy the most profitable demand first.

As for intervention, we already have intervention in the market, in so many different ways. We should never think of any market as "free", we have intervention in the housing market by government in ways of having downtown be perceived as less safe, as schools be rated worse, fewer schools in general, we have cultural interventions where people (and I do mean, real people that I know) feel it is wrong to raise a family in an apartment, and they will tell you that, quite openly. Markets like those for housing are not purely the demands of informed, open consumers, they're a combination of consumer demands, developer plans, city and government regulations, and cultural (which is highly affected by advertising and media), and other factors. This is true for many markets, but especially for housing.

I'm not saying more intervention is right, but I'm saying we shouldn't pretend like it isn't happening.

[TMKM94]

I went to get gas at Esso and noticed trees were cutdown and construction equipment was behind the building, I'm assuming that means construction is going to start on the expansion soon.

[tomh009]

There is grading happening, and a construction office trailer is on the site. The building permit application (6-storey extension to the existing 6-storey building) is not approved yet, though.

[dunkalunk]

News from property management is that the back parking lot is under construction, being expanded

[tomh009]

News from property management is that the back parking lot is under construction, being expanded

Yes, it is. But do I think that's separate from the building expansion.

[Acitta]

News from property management is that the back parking lot is under construction, being expanded

The City doesn't show any current planning applications for that address.

[tomh009]

News from property management is that the back parking lot is under construction, being expanded

The City doesn't show any current planning applications for that address.

There is a building permit pending approval, though.

[dunkalunk]

From what I was hearing, the back lot is being converted to a 2 deck garage which will take until next year. Once deck is done, they will break ground on stage 2.

[tomh009]

From what I was hearing, the back lot is being converted to a 2 deck garage which will take until next year. Once deck is done, they will break ground on stage 2.

The permit application talks about the expansion of underground parking. Is that in addition? Instead of? Completely separate?

They have done significant digging on the (Kitchener) south side of the building, which would seem to support the underground parking theory. And there is no permit application for an above-ground parking structure, unless that's part of the new building.

Mysteries of the universe ...

[mastermind]

Looks like there's a crane base in here.

[ac3r]

I had no idea they were expanding this building! Interesting. This place used to be a dump until it was renovated. It must have done well to get an addition.

[onthehospitalgrid]

Progress suddenly moving quickly in the last couple weeks!

Construction started June 23, 2021 with cutting and clearing the wooded area behind the building. I'll miss those trees! If you want to see what it used to look like with trees, and cleared just before excavation started, see this gallery: https://imgur.com/a/ULGvpG3

Here's what it looked like one month after construction, July 30th:

https://imgur.com/MVlmbRh

https://imgur.com/qfFQ3Vq

After two months, August 25th:

https://imgur.com/7iPTUSj

https://imgur.com/z6iAjSz

Three months, September 18th:

https://imgur.com/FQu0Wf2

https://imgur.com/mvApGVT

https://imgur.com/uvKXAYu

On October 9th:

https://imgur.com/LpplMlR

https://imgur.com/z557Y2c

https://imgur.com/kvYBIgH

November 6th:

https://imgur.com/2WVIuIU

https://imgur.com/K1VmSpr

November 9th:

https://imgur.com/UkhMHyv

November 13th:

https://imgur.com/XpoW9VU

November 17th:

https://imgur.com/OpC8bWs

November 20th:

https://imgur.com/C1Z6JNf