The Breithaupt Block Phase III | 11 fl | U/C

[KevinL]

<rant> I know this has been said before, but having LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL zoning less than 500 metres from the Region's Transit Hub is like having low rise residential zoned next to Union Station in Toronto. The city and the region are actively shooting themselves in the foot if this is turned down </rant>

The big problem here is that the low-density zoning was left in place when PARTS was finalized. I suppose it was politically sensitive then; well, it's become sensitive again now. They have to pull off the Band-Aid at some point...

[Spokes]

The Planning and Strategic Initiatives Committee met on April 9 and recommended this to be approved. That recommendation went to council for a "rubber stamp" on April 16, but council deferred their decision.

Thanks for the clarification.

[welltoldtales]

Apparently the developer made it clear the building would actually create between 1000-1350 jobs. Plus retail in an area definitely experiencing a food desert. When high speed rail is complete and two way go is consistent it is going to essentially disconnect this good from downtown. It needs it's own jobs and needs it's own retail entrepreneurship opportunities. This area also has higher than average central corridor commute times according to censusmapper.ca and I believe that is because the lack of kixed zoning. Too much blanket residential.

[ijmorlan]

Apparently the developer made it clear the building would actually create between 1000-1350 jobs. Plus retail in an area definitely experiencing a food desert. When high speed rail is complete and two way go is consistent it is going to essentially disconnect this good from downtown. It needs it's own jobs and needs it's own retail entrepreneurship opportunities. This area also has higher than average central corridor commute times according to censusmapper.ca and I believe that is because the lack of kixed zoning. Too much blanket residential.

Disconnect? What do you mean? Of the nearby crossings that existed before the last several years, we have:

King - now a grade separation;
Waterloo - currently closed, will be a pedestrian link although if they foolishly go with the bridge rather than the tunnel it will be somewhat roundabout and quite inconvenient for those needing elevators;
Duke - currently level crossing; given proximity to station could be kept even with HSR, although crossing would activate more often
Weber - now a grade separation;
Ahrens - currently closed, but could be re-opened once train station moves;
Margaret - has been a grade separation for decades;

Everything else you say makes sense, but I just don’t see how anybody could think the tracks will form a significant barrier, especially for nonmotorized traffic.

[panamaniac]

To summarize, is it correct that this project will either be approved by City Council in June, or subsequently by the OMB? For the latter, the City would need to face off against its own officials who recommended the project, if I'm not mistaken.

[jeffster]

To summarize, is it correct that this project will either be approved by City Council in June, or subsequently by the OMB?  For the latter, the City would need to face off against its own officials who recommended the project, if I'm not mistaken.

Sucks that it is election year and the only thing many of the politicians care about it another 4 more years. Frank especially. Hopefully the right decision is made in June. I understand it sucks for them, but living in the downtown core, or at least close it it, and next door to the hub, this is the only way to go.

[Rainrider22]

To summarize, is it correct that this project will either be approved by City Council in June, or subsequently by the OMB?  For the latter, the City would need to face off against its own officials who recommended the project, if I'm not mistaken.

Sucks that it is election year and the only thing many of the politicians care about it another 4 more years. Frank especially.  Hopefully the right decision is made in June. I understand it sucks for them, but living in the downtown core, or at least close it it, and next door to the hub, this is the only way to go.

Agreed. And I believe it will raise the value of their properties in the end.

[MidTowner]

Apparently the developer made it clear the building would actually create between 1000-1350 jobs. Plus retail in an area definitely experiencing a food desert. When high speed rail is complete and two way go is consistent it is going to essentially disconnect this good from downtown. It needs it's own jobs and needs it's own retail entrepreneurship opportunities. This area also has higher than average central corridor commute times according to censusmapper.ca and I believe that is because the lack of kixed zoning. Too much blanket residential.

You and I are 100% on the same page with wanting more retail in the neighbourhood. More amenities generally, and jobs. So I don't at all disagree with the general point you're driving at. I can not underline that enough.

The only specific point I quibble with is this being a food desert. One of the few amenities we do have (and we're very lucky to) is Central Market, which is less than ten minute walk from this site.

[jeffster]

Apparently the developer made it clear the building would actually create between 1000-1350 jobs. Plus retail in an area definitely experiencing a food desert. When high speed rail is complete and two way go is consistent it is going to essentially disconnect this good from downtown. It needs it's own jobs and needs it's own retail entrepreneurship opportunities. This area also has higher than average central corridor commute times according to censusmapper.ca and I believe that is because the lack of kixed zoning. Too much blanket residential.

You and I are 100% on the same page with wanting more retail in the neighbourhood. More amenities generally, and jobs. So I don't at all disagree with the general point you're driving at. I can not underline that enough.

The only specific point I quibble with is this being a food desert. One of the few amenities we do have (and we're very lucky to) is Central Market, which is less than ten minute walk from this site.

I am wondering by 'food desert' they meant as in good grub to eat nearby. With Sixo going up soon, I don't believe there is anything in midtown food wise. You have stuff down the street on the other side of Victoria, but other than that, I don't know of too much between there and the hospital.

[KevinL]

There used to be a couple small places but the road closure for LRT construction and the Midtown condo project have shut them all down. You have Central, Tim's, and whatever hasn't closed yet at the plaza.

[welltoldtales]

Disconnect? What do you mean? Of the nearby crossings that existed before the last several years, we have:

King - now a grade separation;
Waterloo - currently closed, will be a pedestrian link although if they foolishly go with the bridge rather than the tunnel it will be somewhat roundabout and quite inconvenient for those needing elevators;
Duke - currently level crossing; given proximity to station could be kept even with HSR, although crossing would activate more often
Weber - now a grade separation;
Ahrens - currently closed, but could be re-opened once train station moves;
Margaret - has been a grade separation for decades;

Everything else you say makes sense, but I just don’t see how anybody could think the tracks will form a significant barrier, especially for nonmotorized traffic.

High Speed rail requires grade separation, that includes Duke. Ahrens will not re-open as far as I know. Weber and King are grade separated but neither are particularly pleasant. Removing Duke, St. Leger and than grade separating Lancaster all will make it harder to get across the tracks. Not that I am complaining... it's just a reality to me. 

From what I have seen people in this end of the hood tend to head in towards Waterloo rather than Kitchener for these reasons. High Speed Rail will continue that trend. Which is actually fine if we have the right amenities in the neighbourhood, which is why I am pro this build with retail. We need those amenities.

As for the Food Desert comment I mean that we are experiencing it. It's not a desert completely. You are right there is Central Fresh, but I wouldn't call it cheap and with no alternative there isn't much in the way of options. As someone else mentioned that also includes other eating options that don't rely on cooking it yourself. Such as fast food options that are healthy or restaurants to sit in and enjoy that offer good quality healthy food.

[MidTowner]

Food desert is sort of a defined term, and I don't think the neighbourhood would qualify. But you're right that there are few options right in the neighbourhood, and of course you have to go at least as far as Victoria, King or Weber (and there still isn't that much on the relevant stretches of those streets). I could probably write a pretty exhaustive list without a lot of thought, and I'd be proving your point: there aren't that many choices.

When I commented a ways back about transit service in Mount Hope, someone talked about how he couldn't see "old" Mount Hope residents caring about having a bus route or not. And I think that's true. You and I want amenities and options in the neighbourhood, and know that that means development. But, frankly, a lot of my neighbours seem perfectly happy to drive everywhere, no matter how near or far. They see no upside to new development.

[ijmorlan]

Disconnect? What do you mean? Of the nearby crossings that existed before the last several years, we have:

King - now a grade separation;
Waterloo - currently closed, will be a pedestrian link although if they foolishly go with the bridge rather than the tunnel it will be somewhat roundabout and quite inconvenient for those needing elevators;
Duke - currently level crossing; given proximity to station could be kept even with HSR, although crossing would activate more often
Weber - now a grade separation;
Ahrens - currently closed, but could be re-opened once train station moves;
Margaret - has been a grade separation for decades;

Everything else you say makes sense, but I just don’t see how anybody could think the tracks will form a significant barrier, especially for nonmotorized traffic.

High Speed rail requires grade separation, that includes Duke. Ahrens will not re-open as far as I know. Weber and King are grade separated but neither are particularly pleasant. Removing Duke, St. Leger and than grade separating Lancaster all will make it harder to get across the tracks. Not that I am complaining... it's just a reality to me. 

Rail traffic in that area will never be “HS”, no matter what sort of rail service is provided, because of the distance from the station. So it should be possible to keep the remaining level crossings. I agree that Ahrens St. will probably not re-open, but it should once the trains don’t stop there any more. So I don’t know why you think the remaining level crossings would have to close.

(Actually, for myself I would go so far as to say that closing Ahrens in the first place was unnecessary: 4 trains a day in the early morning and 4 in the later afternoon and evening is not a good enough reason to close it completely. So the train fouls the crossing for 15 minutes each time. So what? It’s a minor street being blocked mostly at off-hours. But whatever.)

[KevinL]

(Actually, for myself I would go so far as to say that closing Ahrens in the first place was unnecessary: 4 trains a day in the early morning and 4 in the later afternoon and evening is not a good enough reason to close it completely. So the train fouls the crossing for 15 minutes each time. So what? It’s a minor street being blocked mostly at off-hours. But whatever.)

I get the sense Metrolinx insisted on an uninterrupted full length platform for GO service. I can't blame them.

[tomh009]

High Speed rail requires grade separation, that includes Duke. Ahrens will not re-open as far as I know. Weber and King are grade separated but neither are particularly pleasant.

As a pedestrian, I don't really feel that King St or Weber St are particularly unpleasant: it's maybe 20-30m worth of underpass, and Weber St even has some artwork in that span. For me, at least, it's more pleasant going under the tracks on Weber than crossing Victoria St 100m further east.

Ideally I think that it would be nice to have a pedestrian bridge at Waterloo St and a pedestrian/bicycle underpass at Duke St, or vice versa. And grade separation at Lancaster.