St. Patrick's celebrations

[jeffster]

*sigh*...I think it's hard to say that the laws were being broken in a widespread fashion (not that such lawlessness is unusual in our society, just look at speeding--yet somehow, we don't call the cars on Fischer-Hallman "illegal").

As for the costs, sure, set that as the budget for the event next year, if it's successful, it should be easy to attract paying vendors the following year to cover the costs.

Actually we do. If you're speeding and cause an accident you will be charged, and that charge could be criminal. If I were to rear-end a stopped car on Fischer-Hallman while doing 20 over the limit and cause an injury, it's a criminal charge, I could get jail time, and I'll likely lose my license. I can't argue that 'everyone does 20 over', that won't fly in court. I know that's difficult to understand for some people.

It's those same idiots that like driving so fast that cause the cities to install speed bumps on streets, such as Greenbrook. I have to use the road daily and it's a curse. And those speed bumps were caused by people driving their cars illegally.

It's the same with this street party. And the same rules should be applied. Perhaps criminally charging anyone that ends up in the hospital would be a good start.

[danbrotherston]

*sigh*...I think it's hard to say that the laws were being broken in a widespread fashion (not that such lawlessness is unusual in our society, just look at speeding--yet somehow, we don't call the cars on Fischer-Hallman "illegal").

As for the costs, sure, set that as the budget for the event next year, if it's successful, it should be easy to attract paying vendors the following year to cover the costs.

Actually we do. If you're speeding and cause an accident you will be charged, and that charge could be criminal. If I were to rear-end a stopped car on Fischer-Hallman while doing 20 over the limit and cause an injury, it's a criminal charge, I could get jail time, and I'll likely lose my license. I can't argue that 'everyone does 20 over', that won't fly in court. I know that's difficult to understand for some people.

It's those same idiots that like driving so fast that cause the cities to install speed bumps on streets, such as Greenbrook. I have to use the road daily and it's a curse. And those speed bumps were caused by people driving their cars illegally.

It's the same with this street party. And the same rules should be applied. Perhaps criminally charging anyone that ends up in the hospital would be a good start.

As a group, you do not refer to the vehicles on Fischer-Hallman as "illegal" and call for the shutdown of the road.  In fact, all of those consequences you listed, have been faced by students breaking the law during St. Patties day, none of those students could have claimed "oh everyone was doing it".

The point I'm making here, is you all seem to think St. Patties day is a lawless wasteland of criminal activity, I'm pointing out it is no more lawless than an average Regional Road, and yet, somehow, our attitudes are vastly different (including the police response).

Why would you charge people who end up in the hospital?  And for what?  Charging people who put others in the hospital *DOES* happen when they commit illegal acts in doing so.

[Spokes]

Just to clarify the notion that police weren't looking the other way.  They are:

At past street parties, police have often looked the other way while students openly drank alcohol. However, if a beer can was visible, an officer would ask a student to pour it out.

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/814...ice-chief/

[Spokes]

Actually we do. If you're speeding and cause an accident you will be charged, and that charge could be criminal. If I were to rear-end a stopped car on Fischer-Hallman while doing 20 over the limit and cause an injury, it's a criminal charge, I could get jail time, and I'll likely lose my license. I can't argue that 'everyone does 20 over', that won't fly in court. I know that's difficult to understand for some people.

It's those same idiots that like driving so fast that cause the cities to install speed bumps on streets, such as Greenbrook. I have to use the road daily and it's a curse. And those speed bumps were caused by people driving their cars illegally.

It's the same with this street party. And the same rules should be applied. Perhaps criminally charging anyone that ends up in the hospital would be a good start.

As a group, you do not refer to the vehicles on Fischer-Hallman as "illegal" and call for the shutdown of the road.  In fact, all of those consequences you listed, have been faced by students breaking the law during St. Patties day, none of those students could have claimed "oh everyone was doing it".

The point I'm making here, is you all seem to think St. Patties day is a lawless wasteland of criminal activity, I'm pointing out it is no more lawless than an average Regional Road, and yet, somehow, our attitudes are vastly different (including the police response).

Why would you charge people who end up in the hospital?  And for what?  Charging people who put others in the hospital *DOES* happen when they commit illegal acts in doing so.

Except the average Regional Road doesn't require an extra $500,000 to police.

[danbrotherston]

Just to clarify the notion that police weren't looking the other way.  They are:

At past street parties, police have often looked the other way while students openly drank alcohol. However, if a beer can was visible, an officer would ask a student to pour it out.

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/814...ice-chief/

So, in the past, they did not charge students (they did this year), but they were still stopping students who were drinking beers in public.  That's what that quote says.

[danbrotherston]

As a group, you do not refer to the vehicles on Fischer-Hallman as "illegal" and call for the shutdown of the road.  In fact, all of those consequences you listed, have been faced by students breaking the law during St. Patties day, none of those students could have claimed "oh everyone was doing it".

The point I'm making here, is you all seem to think St. Patties day is a lawless wasteland of criminal activity, I'm pointing out it is no more lawless than an average Regional Road, and yet, somehow, our attitudes are vastly different (including the police response).

Why would you charge people who end up in the hospital?  And for what?  Charging people who put others in the hospital *DOES* happen when they commit illegal acts in doing so.

Except the average Regional Road doesn't require an extra $500,000 to police.

That's my point, the students aren't choosing to have vast police resources poured into this, it's the city and police departments which are doing so.  Fischer-Hallman could easily have 500k of policing spent on it, if the citizenry was in an uproar about the lawlessness on Fischer-Hallman, instead we're only spending that on policing students.

[Coke6pk]

Just to clarify the notion that police weren't looking the other way.  They are:

At past street parties, police have often looked the other way while students openly drank alcohol. However, if a beer can was visible, an officer would ask a student to pour it out.

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/814...ice-chief/

Technically, that isn't looking the other way.  They had the beer can emptied, the commission of an offence is no longer possible as the alcohol has been removed from the equation. 

Example, person carrying a machete (a legal device), running into a mall (running from a parking lot is also not illegal).  Officers would arrest.  The person has done nothing illegal, but the arrest would be "to prevent the commission of a crime".  That's pro-active policing.  Pouring out any open alcohol prevents any further illegal acts from happening (Drinking in public / Carrying open liquor).  Sure, you could write a ticket for everyone, but the hope is that if you have to pour your drinks on the ground consistently, you'll stop doing it eventually.

Coke

[Spokes]

Except the average Regional Road doesn't require an extra $500,000 to police.

That's my point, the students aren't choosing to have vast police resources poured into this, it's the city and police departments which are doing so.  Fischer-Hallman could easily have 500k of policing spent on it, if the citizenry was in an uproar about the lawlessness on Fischer-Hallman, instead we're only spending that on policing students.

Oh ok, So your point is we just don't need the police that were there?

[danbrotherston]

That's my point, the students aren't choosing to have vast police resources poured into this, it's the city and police departments which are doing so.  Fischer-Hallman could easily have 500k of policing spent on it, if the citizenry was in an uproar about the lawlessness on Fischer-Hallman, instead we're only spending that on policing students.

Oh ok, So your point is we just don't need the police that were there?

I don't know, do we?  Clearly we don't need more, but do you know that we couldn't do with less?  Like I said, we get by with far less on Fischer-Hallman.

[Spokes]

I don't know. I was just asking your opinion.

[MacBerry]

Except the average Regional Road doesn't require an extra $500,000 to police.

That's my point, the students aren't choosing to have vast police resources poured into this, it's the city and police departments which are doing so.  Fischer-Hallman could easily have 500k of policing spent on it, if the citizenry was in an uproar about the lawlessness on Fischer-Hallman, instead we're only spending that on policing students.

Wait until one student dies as part of the day or as a result and watch what happens ... $500,000 will pale in comparison.

[danbrotherston]

That's my point, the students aren't choosing to have vast police resources poured into this, it's the city and police departments which are doing so.  Fischer-Hallman could easily have 500k of policing spent on it, if the citizenry was in an uproar about the lawlessness on Fischer-Hallman, instead we're only spending that on policing students.

Wait until one student dies as part of the day or as a result and watch what happens ... $500,000 will pale in comparison.

I dunno, that would be sad, but multiple students die each year from suicide and I've been watching as very little has been done about that for years.

I suspect the burning of someone's car, or other vandalism would probably result in a stronger response, but maybe I'm just bitterly cynical.

[jamincan]

Wait until one student dies as part of the day or as a result and watch what happens ... $500,000 will pale in comparison.

I dunno, that would be sad, but multiple students die each year from suicide and I've been watching as very little has been done about that for years.

I suspect the burning of someone's car, or other vandalism would probably result in a stronger response, but maybe I'm just bitterly cynical.

Suicide and mental health continue to be problems with youth, but I don't think it's even remotely fair or accurate to say that very little has been done. It's laughable to believe that the response to some vandalism would somehow outstrip the response to a chronic problem that has been taken very seriously and that has had scores of resources thrown at it.

[jeffster]

Wait until one student dies as part of the day or as a result and watch what happens ... $500,000 will pale in comparison.

I dunno, that would be sad, but multiple students die each year from suicide and I've been watching as very little has been done about that for years.

I suspect the burning of someone's car, or other vandalism would probably result in a stronger response, but maybe I'm just bitterly cynical.

Well, I believe that certain services should be included with our OHIP (psychology). However, there are still a lot of services that attempt to deal with these mental health issues. I think it's similar to dealing with the homelessness. You can do everything you can, it still won't prevent much of the suicides and the mental illness that leads up to it.

I do believe too, that if the schools concentrated on this issue, the numbers would go down. Though to be honest, I really don't know what programs the school have running and how they educate students and staff currently.

What do you think would be a solution to this problem (suicide)?

[danbrotherston]

I dunno, that would be sad, but multiple students die each year from suicide and I've been watching as very little has been done about that for years.

I suspect the burning of someone's car, or other vandalism would probably result in a stronger response, but maybe I'm just bitterly cynical.

Well, I believe that certain services should be included with our OHIP (psychology). However, there are still a lot of services that attempt to deal with these mental health issues. I think it's similar to dealing with the homelessness. You can do everything you can, it still won't prevent much of the suicides and the mental illness that leads up to it.

I do believe too, that if the schools concentrated on this issue, the numbers would go down. Though to be honest, I really don't know what programs the school have running and how they educate students and staff currently.

What do you think would be a solution to this problem (suicide)?

I don't really have solutions, I just know during my time, it really wasn't talked about. I think there was a suicide while I was there, but I couldn't find any news about it or any discussion, and there wasn't much discussion of support. I was lucky enough to stay with family, but I can imagine how isolating it would be to live on campus alone for the first time, at the time, it was very much cut off from the greater community.

I also know people who tried to use the support services themselves, and they faced problems of weeks or even months of wait time.