One Victoria | 63 m | 19 fl | Complete

[insider]

Those chains are highly unlikely to serve as a destination. They are not a destination these days because we already have these chains with locations all over town. That would perhaps be different if this were to be the first or second location for either chain in the region but in some parts of town Starbucks in particular is more ubiquitous than Tim Horton's these days.

Settlement will be good for downtown because like Balzacs and Smile Tiger and Matter of Taste and Pyrus they are focused on quality rather than volume. They serve better coffee, a greater variety of coffee and baked goods that rival most of the best bakeries around. Its the stuff people go out of their way for. 

Further to that, shops like these (proliferating into one general area like this) have a tendency to legitimize places in which they locate as cool and can serve as catalysts for attracting employers and residents. They are creators of gentrification, if you will. Uptown's image as the place to live and work over downtown is just that little bit more eroded. 

I'll add though that I'm surprised by this move as I have heard lease rates in this building, all-in were in the $50 sq/ft range so the sales volume will need to be there if Settlement is to survive long term.

Thought your post needed a small tweak! 

Thought your post needed a small tweak! 

[MacBerry]

I would guess Starbucks knows what they are doing when they pick locations and downtown Kitchener has a lot of upscale coffee choices nearby already so the market may not be big enough to support a walk-in only starbucks. They pay the employees pretty well and have good benefits apparently so I would guess they need a high volume of customers to keep a location profitable.

I agree.

I can't understand why people think this is such a great location.  West is a railroad track and then the Breightaupt Block who's major tenant is dedicated to making sure nobody ever leaves the office.  South, the Tannery has a good coffee shop.  East, there is a coffee in 305 King.  North their will be Smile Tiger.  When the transit hub is finally built (??), it will have coffee in it so people will not go kitty corner across the street for it.

There is no good parking and this area is still very car oriented (for the foreseeable future).  There is basically no pedestrian foot traffic around there (I concede there will be a bit more when 1 Vic opens up).  But there is just no convenience to this location.

Starbucks does not enter markets before they are ready.  They pay top, top rent for good locations when a place can support their business model.

Now roast me.....

Should we decaf you first?

[ac3r]

I would guess Starbucks knows what they are doing when they pick locations and downtown Kitchener has a lot of upscale coffee choices nearby already so the market may not be big enough to support a walk-in only starbucks. They pay the employees pretty well and have good benefits apparently so I would guess they need a high volume of customers to keep a location profitable.

This is precicely why you wont see Starbucks downtown for a long time. Such chain cafes (which feel like they're more a fast food place) would not do very good downtown firstly because of the small population, but secondly the unique sense of community you get in a city of this size. This is primarily the reason you don't see any (excluding Coffee Culture, I suppose).

Downtown Kitchener has a very noticeable sense of community because of the still modest population. Anyone who spends most of their time down there will know what I mean. There's a closeness to everything and everyone. You run into the same faces and crowds and communities and know what kind of people live and work there. As such, most of the popular cafes are independent and draw people to them because the downtown is - ignoring the universities - the main place in the region for culture and community. They serve as a hub for the arts, music, activism, outreach, etc. Queen Street Commons Cafe is incredibly popular thanks to its philosophy towards work, community, arts, volunteerism. Pyrus shares this atmosphere. Adventurers Guild has become a place for gamers and similar to hang out. Matter of Taste has been down there for so long, too, for these reasons as well.

There is currently no reason why anything like a Starbucks would need or want to open up downtown and frankly, I doubt many people who live and work down there would welcome such a place, unless you really like cheap, bad coffee. They work in larger urban areas because of the sheer amount of people but also within suburbs because of the culture (or lack of) that they are a part of: fast, cheap, easy products.

[Owen]

This is precicely why you wont see Starbucks downtown for a long time. Such chain cafes (which feel like they're more a fast food place) would not do very good downtown firstly because of the small population, but secondly the unique sense of community you get in a city of this size. This is primarily the reason you don't see any (excluding Coffee Culture, I suppose).

Downtown Kitchener has a very noticeable sense of community because of the still modest population. Anyone who spends most of their time down there will know what I mean. There's a closeness to everything and everyone. You run into the same faces and crowds and communities and know what kind of people live and work there. As such, most of the popular cafes are independent and draw people to them because the downtown is - ignoring the universities - the main place in the region for culture and community. They serve as a hub for the arts, music, activism, outreach, etc. Queen Street Commons Cafe is incredibly popular thanks to its philosophy towards work, community, arts, volunteerism. Pyrus shares this atmosphere. Adventurers Guild has become a place for gamers and similar to hang out. Matter of Taste has been down there for so long, too, for these reasons as well.

There is currently no reason why anything like a Starbucks would need or want to open up downtown and frankly, I doubt many people who live and work down there would welcome such a place, unless you really like cheap, bad coffee. They work in larger urban areas because of the sheer amount of people but also within suburbs because of the culture (or lack of) that they are a part of: fast, cheap, easy products.

Firstly - as much as Starbucks pales in comparison to Settlement Co, it's still miles above Timmy's and their new 'dark roast' garbage.  

Secondly - Whether you're talking Starbucks or an independent, this is an amazing location!   You have to keep in mind that Starbucks typically signs 5-10 year leases when they setup a location - they aren't looking at it for what it is today.  Even if it was just what is there today you would have a huge volume of clientele right on your doorstep in 1 Vic and the Kaufman lofts, never mind the Pharmacy school, Tannery and surrounding community.  My wife has girlfriends who drive from their houses (in and around the Kitchener downtown) down to Fairway road or up to Waterloo, just to make a visit to Starbucks.  The reality is a Starbucks location downtown will be closer in proximity for a lot of people.  But looking at 'tomorrow' with the Kings Landing development and the transit hub across this street - this is easily going to be one of the best locations in the city.

Finally - I thought I already dropped a fairly obvious hint that it's not going to be Starbucks -- it's Settlement Co! I stopped into their uptown location on a whim (and was completely blown away by their coffee - they're all about the water they use - as the owner put it, it's 99% of the product they sell and most coffee shops just make their coffee out of crap tap water - Settlement Co distills then re-mineralizes based on a special formula - I'm not expert, but I love my espresso's and cappuccino's, and theirs blew my mind!) and I overheard the owner talking about it.   I for one will happily make the trek to this location for their coffee (I presently make the trek to uptown waterloo to treat myself on occasion, and this will be much closer)

[kwliving]

Starbucks...unless you really like cheap, bad coffee. 

You lost me. Expensive, overpriced, low quality, yes. Cheap, no. 

[tomh009]

... and we digress again.  Given we're far along this road already, I will agree with Owen that Starbucks is not terrible.  It's not gourmet espresso, but they sell consistent quality at many convenient locations, so they have built up a solid clientele.  The milk-based drinks are quite all right in my opinion, although I don't claim to have golden taste buds.  And the prices are pretty much in line with what every other espresso shop charges.  I frequent Starbucks when traveling, especially in the US, as their locations are far easier to find than the local non-chain cafes (and it's still far better than the coffee from Dunking Donuts).

Which cafes, restaurants and stores we prefer, it's all down to personal choice, the great thing is that we do have a choice.

[panamaniac]

Nice to see the construction hoardings coming down today!

[GtwoK]

Hadn't realized what a nice curvature the main floor windows had to them!

[panamaniac]

Hadn't realized what a nice curvature the main floor windows had to them!

I noticed that as well, along with the nice width of the sidewalks.  I wonder if outdoor tables for the coffee shop will be set into that area?

[tomh009]

Need some photos here!  The podium indeed looks quite good, with curved glass, and I like the reflections it gives from Kaufman Lofts across the street.  That said, the tower aesthetics do not appeal to me as much as the higher percentage of glass used by City Centre Condos, for example.  Still, I'm very happy to have both buildings in the downtown core.

   
As seen from Victoria St S

   
The podium at King & Victoria

   
The curved glass of the podium retail space

[jgsz]

Thanks for the photos.  It's an impressive building.

[MidTowner]

Thanks for the photos! On Saturday, for curiosity's sake, I walked over to that side of King (where you took your last photo) to get a sense of the "feel" from the sidewalk. I think it's going to make for a great walking experience, a welcome change from that along the Kaufman building across the way. Very transparent first floor, and if there is a space for a small patio for the coffee shop, that would be even better.

[ibuildstuff]

I think this building is too dark. If the glazing was a light grey it would have been much more appealing. Good thing they learned and made 100 hundred a lighter colour like city centre.

[plam]

Need some photos here!  The podium indeed looks quite good, with curved glass, and I like the reflections it gives from Kaufman Lofts across the street.  That said, the tower aesthetics do not appeal to me as much as the higher percentage of glass used by City Centre Condos, for example.  Still, I'm very happy to have both buildings in the downtown core.

I've read that all-glass building envelopes are actually kind of problematic for all sorts of practical reasons (e.g. energy efficiency). One Victoria is probably going to perform much better.

[BuildingScout]

I've read that all-glass building envelopes are actually kind of problematic for all sorts of practical reasons (e.g. energy efficiency).

A lot of that was information fed to the press by the not-glass-segment of the construction industry. I pointed out, for example, that in Europe the highest levels of energy efficiency essentially demand a glass enclosure on the building, which is the exact opposite of what said lobbyists were claiming.