Victoria and Park | 25, 36, 38 fl | Proposed

[neonjoe]

But but but we need skyscrapers in farmers fields. Car centric skyscrapers will help traffic right?
The tower in the park concept worked out well right?

[ijmorlan]

I would assume something registered on title that prevents them from being sold at a price higher than some ratio relative to median income or market prices. Usually the numbers you see are 30% of median income as a yearly housing cost or market cost less 10%. It may also be tied to time horizon of 20 or 50 years (just numbers I've seen recently for other projects).

That can’t work. I’m not saying that’s not how it is, but price controls of this sort will just cause trouble. If it goes on the market at the price limit, it will attract huge amounts of offers; and then how does the seller choose? Realistically, they probably choose the “cash tomorrow” offer, meaning the unit almost certainly ends up in the hands of a rich shyster who can then find a way to sell it for more.

This is the same problem as full rent control (no vacancy de-control) unmoored from market prices. You end up with prices rising in other ways.

Edit: OK, I see one suggested possibility is a fraction of market prices. That might conceivably work more or less as expected; but on the other hand it doesn’t provide that much price relief (which is of course also why it has a chance of working as expected). It remains the case that the only way to really keep prices low is to have enough supply that the market price is lower.

[danbrotherston]

I would assume something registered on title that prevents them from being sold at a price higher than some ratio relative to median income or market prices. Usually the numbers you see are 30% of median income as a yearly housing cost or market cost less 10%. It may also be tied to time horizon of 20 or 50 years (just numbers I've seen recently for other projects).

That can’t work. I’m not saying that’s not how it is, but price controls of this sort will just cause trouble. If it goes on the market at the price limit, it will attract huge amounts of offers; and then how does the seller choose? Realistically, they probably choose the “cash tomorrow” offer, meaning the unit almost certainly ends up in the hands of a rich shyster who can then find a way to sell it for more.

This is the same problem as full rent control (no vacancy de-control) unmoored from market prices. You end up with prices rising in other ways.

Edit: OK, I see one suggested possibility is a fraction of market prices. That might conceivably work more or less as expected; but on the other hand it doesn’t provide that much price relief (which is of course also why it has a chance of working as expected). It remains the case that the only way to really keep prices low is to have enough supply that the market price is lower.

I don't really know what the policy is here, frankly, I also don't see a way in which it can work, the two fundamental goals of providing people affordable housing and allowing them to build wealth by owning property are literally directly opposed. It's why I'm not certain if "affordable" ownership makes any sense.

That being said, worth reading about how Toronto island manages it's housing. It's a completely regulated market, houses are sold for an appraised construction value, and there is an agency that maintains a wait list that is first come first served.

I dunno if it's an answer, but it's interesting that in one of the least affordable cities in the country we have houses in the downtown core selling for an appraised construction price.

[panamaniac]

The Toronto Islanders do not own the land their houses sit on. Perhaps that provides an option.

[ac3r]

But but but we need skyscrapers in farmers fields. Car centric skyscrapers will help traffic right?
The tower in the park concept worked out well right?

Better yet, we could just turn the city into something like Tokyo-3 in Neon Genesis Evangelion where all the towers and skyscrapers can retract underground at the push of the button! If we're going to use galaxy brain solutions we might as well go big.

[danbrotherston]

The Toronto Islanders do not own the land their houses sit on.  Perhaps that provides an option.

I mean, they're on a 99 year land lease...while I'm sure there are technical differences, I'm not sure there are practical differences. While you live there, you can act as though you own the land I assume?

[ijmorlan]

The Toronto Islanders do not own the land their houses sit on.  Perhaps that provides an option.

I mean, they're on a 99 year land lease...while I'm sure there are technical differences, I'm not sure there are practical differences. While you live there, you can act as though you own the land I assume?

It’s a massively regulated situation. While technically they own their houses, due to the way the land lease is managed it’s really not what one normally thinks of as ownership. Lots of interesting information about how the process works:

https://torontoisland.org/purchasers-list/

Bottom line, while some lucky people do indeed get to occupy prime real estate for very little, it is in no way a solution to housing affordability. If the actual goal were solely housing affordability, the thing to do would be to rent the island homes for top dollar and use the money to build cheap apartment blocks on the mainland.

Edit: I found an article about a situation I had been considering mentioning but couldn’t remember many of the details:

https://torontolife.com/city/toronto-isl...ty-battle/

When I first heard of this, my immediate reaction was that the adoption was obviously a sham. When I read the article, though, I quickly realized it is not a sham, and agree with the Court’s ruling. At the same time, however, the acrimony mentioned in the article around various issues is all attributable to an attempt to have property trade for a value that is different from market value: you can’t stop prices from rising (or falling); only change how they do it.

[danbrotherston]

I don't think that's the point, it's easy for rentals to be price regulated, the vast majority of rentals are regulated in some way.

This is an example of owned properties also being price regulated. I don't know of any other examples like this.

[westwardloo]

Wow, surprisingly 'The Record' actual wrote a story today about people living in this neighbourhood who are in favor of this development. Someone must have reached out to them. Glad to see the YIMBY group is taking a proactive approach. People don't like when I attach a link to 'The Record', so if you want to read it, the title is 'there is no going back to the way the city looked before'.

[jeremyroman]

Wow, surprisingly 'The Record' actual wrote a story today about people living in this neighbourhood who are in favor of this development. Someone must have reached out to them. Glad to see the YIMBY group is taking a proactive approach.  People don't like when I attach a link to 'The Record', so if you want to read it, the title is 'there is no going back to the way the city looked before'.

Specifically, ‘There is no going back to the way the city looked before’ (Liz Monteiro, Fri., Dec. 10, 2021).

[CP42]

Wow, surprisingly 'The Record' actual wrote a story today about people living in this neighbourhood who are in favor of this development. Someone must have reached out to them. Glad to see the YIMBY group is taking a proactive approach.  People don't like when I attach a link to 'The Record', so if you want to read it, the title is 'there is no going back to the way the city looked before'.

There was a solid few responses to their tweet of the story complaining about the lack of coverage of those in favour - perhaps that had some sort of impact!

[CP42]

Wow, surprisingly 'The Record' actual wrote a story today about people living in this neighbourhood who are in favor of this development. Someone must have reached out to them. Glad to see the YIMBY group is taking a proactive approach.  People don't like when I attach a link to 'The Record', so if you want to read it, the title is 'there is no going back to the way the city looked before'.

Specifically, ‘There is no going back to the way the city looked before’ (Liz Monteiro, Fri., Dec. 10, 2021).

I used to use outline to read these, but it doesn't seem to be working now.
Does anyone have any other suggestions?

[cherrypark]

Specifically, ‘There is no going back to the way the city looked before’ (Liz Monteiro, Fri., Dec. 10, 2021).

I used to use outline to read these, but it doesn't seem to be working now.
Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Here is one site you can use for access if you don't want to subscribe: Archived article

[taylortbb]

Specifically, ‘There is no going back to the way the city looked before’ (Liz Monteiro, Fri., Dec. 10, 2021).

I used to use outline to read these, but it doesn't seem to be working now.
Does anyone have any other suggestions?

The Record's mobile app is totally open/free. No article limits, and shows subscriber-only articles. Not great for reading old articles, but quite convenient for any current news story.

[tomh009]

I don't think that's the point, it's easy for rentals to be price regulated, the vast majority of rentals are regulated in some way.

This is an example of owned properties also being price regulated. I don't know of any other examples like this.

We don't actually know whether they are regulated. They could also just be built less expensively, with less space and less expensive finishings.