ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[taylortbb]

Ah I see. For some reason I thought we already fixed the welds here...but now that I think about it, there is probably some clause where only Bombardier is authorized to make certain repairs (beyond us fixing the bumpers) on the vehicles since modern capitalism is great like that.

The welds will be fixed here, we don't have to ship any units back to Bombardier like Toronto had to. Bombardier has an office full of staff inside the OMSF.

[jeffster]

How long to fix each unit? Is the welding problem identical to Toronto's?

[KevinT]

The welds will be fixed here, we don't have to ship any units back to Bombardier like Toronto had to. Bombardier has an office full of staff inside the OMSF.

I recall reading that in a news report at some point, but I found it very hard to believe at the time and still do now. Having a staffed office is one thing, but having the shop space and tooling is quite another. Our OMSF was designed to perform routine maintenance, not tear a vehicle down to the frame and store all the pieces that came off of it for reassembly. More power to them if they can pull it off, but I'm skeptical.

[KevinT]

How long to fix each unit? Is the welding problem identical to Toronto's?

I haven't analyzed the dates recorded at CPTDB | TTC 4400-4603 in detail, but it appears that the earliest TTC units sent to Quebec for rewelding returned after 13+ months whereas the turnaround has been in as little as 5 months for the more recent units. I'd much rather that our trains did go to Quebec for rework, as they seem to have gotten good at it.

Same issue, here's one report on it: Kitchener Today | Unexpected ION train repairs needed; won't impact service.

Per that article, 11 or our 14 original trains are affected, and it will take 2 years to rework them all. Given the time it took La Poc in Quebec to get the first TTC units done, where multiple units are worked on in parallel in a production space by an experienced workforce, I can't imagine how doing them one at a time here in Waterloo could possibly take as little as 2 years. 

[Bob_McBob]

Are there any other intersections with pedestrian crossings like King and Victoria on the route? It seems rather dangerous to put the beg buttons on the other side of the tracks. Apparently you still get a walk signal if someone on the other side of the road has pressed the button, which means pedestrians can cross the intersection on a walk signal and still be struck by a train if they don't check before crossing the tracks first.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4529056,-...384!8i8192

This came up on Reddit today, over two years later. It seems to just be a matter of time before someone is hit by the train here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/waterloo/commen...d_my_life/

[jeffster]

Are there any other intersections with pedestrian crossings like King and Victoria on the route? It seems rather dangerous to put the beg buttons on the other side of the tracks. Apparently you still get a walk signal if someone on the other side of the road has pressed the button, which means pedestrians can cross the intersection on a walk signal and still be struck by a train if they don't check before crossing the tracks first.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4529056,-...384!8i8192

This came up on Reddit today, over two years later. It seems to just be a matter of time before someone is hit by the train here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/waterloo/commen...d_my_life/

Someone will need to be killed first before changes are made. That’s the way government works.

Rather than proactive, it’s reactive.

[danbrotherston]

This came up on Reddit today, over two years later. It seems to just be a matter of time before someone is hit by the train here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/waterloo/commen...d_my_life/

Someone will need to be killed first before changes are made. That’s the way government works.

Rather than proactive, it’s reactive.

I'd bet the train was barely moving and the driver was aware and there was no actual danger.

Honestly it crawls through there.

I don't believe it's as dangerous as people think.

[KingandWeber]

Are there any other intersections with pedestrian crossings like King and Victoria on the route? It seems rather dangerous to put the beg buttons on the other side of the tracks. Apparently you still get a walk signal if someone on the other side of the road has pressed the button, which means pedestrians can cross the intersection on a walk signal and still be struck by a train if they don't check before crossing the tracks first.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4529056,-...384!8i8192

This came up on Reddit today, over two years later. It seems to just be a matter of time before someone is hit by the train here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/waterloo/commen...d_my_life/

Isn't this no different than cars being able to turn right on a red light? I would assume it's on the driver of the train (like the driver turning right on a red) to ensure the path is clear before proceeding. And in this case the LRT driver has far less distraction since they don't need to look for cross-traffic like an ordinary driver turning right on red (being in their own lane) other than immediate pedestrian traffic. All this to say, I think the person was legitimately scared, but there was probably no danger unless the LRT driver wasn't paying attention, in which case this incident could just as easily happen at Waterloo Town Square or any other section with pedestrian interfacing elements.

[ac3r]

This came up on Reddit today, over two years later. It seems to just be a matter of time before someone is hit by the train here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/waterloo/commen...d_my_life/

I've almost been hit by the train there. It's an awkward pedestrian crossing. I've never had any close calls anywhere else but that particular area.

[danbrotherston]

This came up on Reddit today, over two years later. It seems to just be a matter of time before someone is hit by the train here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/waterloo/commen...d_my_life/

Isn't this no different than cars being able to turn right on a red light? I would assume it's on the driver of the train (like the driver turning right on a red) to ensure the path is clear before proceeding. And in this case the LRT driver has far less distraction since they don't need to look for cross-traffic like an ordinary driver turning right on red (being in their own lane) other than immediate pedestrian traffic. All this to say, I think the person was legitimately scared, but there was probably no danger unless the LRT driver wasn't paying attention, in which case this incident could just as easily happen at Waterloo Town Square or any other section with pedestrian interfacing elements.

Yup, that's a reasonable analogy. And yes, I have no doubt that the person (and the bystander) were legitimately scared. But they aren't scared because of actual danger, they are scared because of conditioning.

[danbrotherston]

This came up on Reddit today, over two years later. It seems to just be a matter of time before someone is hit by the train here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/waterloo/commen...d_my_life/

I've almost been hit by the train there. It's an awkward pedestrian crossing. I've never had any close calls anywhere else but that particular area.

Define: Almost been hit.  Do you mean, were in the path of the train at one point, or do you mean you were in a situation where the train was moving at a high speed, and couldn't have stopped before hitting you and the driver did not see you.

I've been at that corner with the train going by, it goes very slowly, I really need a stronger explanation here.

[ac3r]

As in walking across the tracks, but was then met with a train maybe 10 feet away honking the horn. That should not be permitted to occur.

This article explains how messed up that crossing is. You can have a white OK-to-walk signal and yet the train goes through regardless. I'm sure it would have stopped but it's still a ridiculous intersection. The fact that the beg button can only be pushed by walking across makes it even worse. If it were a child trying to cross the street, who didn't know they had to expect the train, that could result in an accident. There is - at most - 4 feet of room to stand on and you end up sandwiched between a train and fast moving traffic standing there. It wouldn't be as bad if they had a short pole with the beg button on it before the tracks, but the way it is now is just inviting an accident to occur, either from the train itself or an inattentive driver.

[danbrotherston]

As in walking across the tracks, but was then met with a train maybe 10 feet away honking the horn. That should not be permitted to occur.

This article explains how messed up that crossing is. You can have a white OK-to-walk signal and yet the train goes through regardless. I'm sure it would have stopped but it's still a ridiculous intersection. The fact that the beg button can only be pushed by walking across makes it even worse. If it were a child trying to cross the street, who didn't know they had to expect the train, that could result in an accident. There is - at most - 4 feet of room to stand on and you end up sandwiched between a train and fast moving traffic standing there. It wouldn't be as bad if they had a short pole with the beg button on it before the tracks, but the way it is now is just inviting an accident to occur, either from the train itself or an inattentive driver.

But you don't have a walk signal, the walk signal is for the road, that's why the beg button isn't on the near side of the crossing. This is the same as every channelized turn in the city.

And like I said, the risk is very low because the train is going slowly. This is why there are towns in Europe with trams through the middle of pedestrian areas, which don't see frequent collisions because the tram is going slowly.

I agree there are problems with the design of this crossing, but I don't believe safety is one of those problems.

[timc]

From what I recall, the button at that corner isn't a beg button, but an audio button. And I guess that would make it worse for someone who needs that accommodation, because they have to cross the tracks to access it.

[danbrotherston]

From what I recall, the button at that corner isn't a beg button, but an audio button. And I guess that would make it worse for someone who needs that accommodation, because they have to cross the tracks to access it.

Yes, it isn't actually a pedestrian actuated signal, but again, those who need accomodation have the same problem at all channelized turns. And again, it is difficult to express with words how much more I trust LRV operators than I trust drivers.