Q Condos (20 Queen St N) | 34 fl | Proposed

[ac3r]

It's gorgeous. Hard to look at that and think...nah don't preserve it. As it's probably known, I'm an architect. They could give me the .dwg file and I could open up AutoCAD and easily figure out a way to both save this building and build a condo tower on the same structure...it's not hard, but I am guessing they're not willing to spend the money to engineer that.

[taylortbb]

It's gorgeous. Hard to look at that and think...nah don't preserve it. As it's probably known, I'm an architect. They could give me the .dwg file and I could open up AutoCAD and easily figure out a way to both save this building and build a condo tower on the same structure...it's not hard, but I am guessing they're not willing to spend the money to engineer that.

I did talk to them about that, they've been getting a lot of pressure from council to look in to it. The problem is where do you put elevator shafts, garbage chutes, stairwells, etc, if you're not allowed to touch that ceiling. That room + the facade covers most of the footprint of the property.

[ac3r]

Yeah the facilities would be tricky to integrate, but not impossible. A good architecture team ought to be able to figure it out. I think it's just going to boil down to whether or not Momentum is willing to put in the work/money to save this and whether or not the ACO, Kitchener Heritage Council (or whatever it's called) and the city are willing to designate this as something worth preserving.

I wish more of the people who work for these local developers, architects and people working for the ROW/city lurked these forums (and perhaps Reddit). There is a lot of great input that users generate on these places, but it never really gets heard unless someone goes to some community Zoom meeting...but that's a pretty limited way to receive input.

[dtkmelissa]

Neither the interior architectural beauty nor the potential future condo development is accessible or beneficial to a medium-income single person like myself. While I have no vested interest in this project, I do hope that future generations are able to appreciate the uniqueness of this property in one way or another. Keeping a heritage building locked up behind closed doors doesn't benefit anyone.

 
Where does the idea come from that this building is/was inaccesible to the public?  I was in it a number of times, including at least once as a casual visitor just to check out the interior.  Iinm, it has also been included in Doors Open.

It's not a public building - it is privately owned so presumably, unless you are a client/customer of one of the existing tenants, most people aren't accessing it. In fact, some of the people speaking in favour of saving the entire building, had never been in it. It was part of Doors Open nearly a decade ago and presenters last night said that about 600 people attended on that day - other than that, it's not really open to the public.

I have a lot of thoughts on this (and did speak to council on this last night) but I'd generally say I struggle to see the value in saving the entire building when so view people can access it. However, if the community decides it is truly worth saving, then perhaps we shouldn't be expecting a private developer to take the lead on that, but we have the city or region invest in, who could then make it completely accessible to residents. They could also offer many of the other things people have suggested is possible, such as housing on top of it. It's been listed on the municipal register for years now - i don't understand why, if this is such a keystone building (and I agree, it really is beautiful), we are only demanding designation now. I feel like we need a much more proactive approach to heritage we may want to protect.

[panamaniac]

Does the proposed tower require any change to zoning?

[ijmorlan]

For decades and decades nobody gave a rat's ass about this building and now suddenly it's become as important to preserve as Stonehenge.

What’s up with Stonehenge anyway? It’s just a pile of big rocks, amirite? Dunno why it’s so famous!

More seriously about this building, if preserved, would one keep the 2nd floor that was added in, or remove it to restore the double-height large space? That photo of the fancy ceiling looks like we’re just looking at the top half of a very tall and grand space.

[jeffster]

Yeah the facilities would be tricky to integrate, but not impossible. A good architecture team ought to be able to figure it out. I think it's just going to boil down to whether or not Momentum is willing to put in the work/money to save this and whether or not the ACO, Kitchener Heritage Council (or whatever it's called) and the city are willing to designate this as something worth preserving.

I wish more of the people who work for these local developers, architects and people working for the ROW/city lurked these forums (and perhaps Reddit). There is a lot of great input that users generate on these places, but it never really gets heard unless someone goes to some community Zoom meeting...but that's a pretty limited way to receive input.

At the end of the day, they will be at the mercy of Momentum. I think Momentum will do whatever they can to make *some* people happy, including saving the facade, and elements of the interior. I am certain that ones from the RoW, the city, etc, do lurk here and elsewhere. But at the end of the day, it's a paycheque for them.

As I keep on saying, people have to bring up these issues before city hall BEFORE a developer comes along, and understands they are free to do what they want as there is no conditions on the property. But this never happens.

We simply don't learn in this community. We repeat the same mistake over and over and over again. And we only get upset after it's too late.

[ac3r]

As I keep on saying, people have to bring up these issues before city hall BEFORE a developer comes along, and understands they are free to do what they want as there is no conditions on the property. But this never happens.

True. To be honest, I didn't even know this property was for sale at any point or that Momentum owned it and they announced this condo project and it was picked up by media. Which...tends to be par for the course when historically significant buildings like this.

[danbrotherston]

Yeah the facilities would be tricky to integrate, but not impossible. A good architecture team ought to be able to figure it out. I think it's just going to boil down to whether or not Momentum is willing to put in the work/money to save this and whether or not the ACO, Kitchener Heritage Council (or whatever it's called) and the city are willing to designate this as something worth preserving.

I wish more of the people who work for these local developers, architects and people working for the ROW/city lurked these forums (and perhaps Reddit). There is a lot of great input that users generate on these places, but it never really gets heard unless someone goes to some community Zoom meeting...but that's a pretty limited way to receive input.

At the end of the day, they will be at the mercy of Momentum. I think Momentum will do whatever they can to make *some* people happy, including saving the facade, and elements of the interior. I am certain that ones from the RoW, the city, etc, do lurk here and elsewhere. But at the end of the day, it's a paycheque for them.

As I keep on saying, people have to bring up these issues before city hall BEFORE a developer comes along, and understands they are free to do what they want as there is no conditions on the property. But this never happens.

We simply don't learn in this community. We repeat the same mistake over and over and over again. And we only get upset after it's too late.

Quite frankly, the fact that this wasn't an issue before the redevelopment proposal I think is revealing. If something is an important heritage building, it should stand on its own, not in response to a redevelopment proposal.

[tomh009]

As I keep on saying, people have to bring up these issues before city hall BEFORE a developer comes along, and understands they are free to do what they want as there is no conditions on the property. But this never happens.

True. To be honest, I didn't even know this property was for sale at any point or that Momentum owned it and they announced this condo project and it was picked up by media. Which...tends to be par for the course when historically significant buildings like this.

But the question someone else asked before is still valid: if this is one of the most historically significant buildings in downtown, why was it not listed as a heritage building before? That would have precluded anyone from trying to develop the property, and it's the right way to protect buildings that ought to be protected.

[ac3r]

I think that goes to show you that heritage protection needs reworked. The criteria and the people who make the decisions need shaken up a bit. There has to be some new ideas and more solid criteria as to what can permit a building to get designated as heritage.

[jeffster]

I think that goes to show you that heritage protection needs reworked. The criteria and the people who make the decisions need shaken up a bit. There has to be some new ideas and more solid criteria as to what can permit a building to get designated as heritage.

Not sure if I mentioned it, but when it comes to heritage value — how often do they look at the overall build quality? I know many talk about Preston Spring, Mayfair Hotel, Forsyth Shift Factory, etc., but what we the quality of these buildings? Preston Springs was condemned while it was still in use (as a retirement community). No one wanted to the challenge of fixing up either the Mayfair or Forsyth.

So compared with some builds in the city (lets say the Scotia Bank or CIBC in DTK) vs some other builds, how does it stack up? And how does it stack up to builds in Europe, where a lot of old buildings still exist.

Everyone will always argue over what should be saved. But we should be asking ‘what can be saved’ instead. The community needs to come together, and ask 2 questions: 1) Should it be saved? 2) Can it be saved?
If the answer is yes to bother questions, then designate it. If the answer is “no” to either question, then no designation. And when it comes to question 1, no means no. It doesn’t mean “no, not now, but maybe yes if someone with deep pockets buys it…”

[Lebronj23]

I drove by today and there were U-haul trucks parked outside with interior items being packed up and shipped out.

A first sign of progress? Who knows

[Lebronj23]

https://outline.com/4MELLB

[WaterLouGehrig]

https://outline.com/4MELLB

Great for our City. Props to them for being the first movers.