The Shannondale (née Electrohome, 152 Shanley St) | 8 fl | U/C

[taylortbb]

Looks like the City gotten taken for about $700,000 on this property by the previous owners who bought to property for $1 and sold it for $1.4 million. No maintenance was done and no property tax were for over 20 years. The city tried to sell multiple time to recoup the outstanding bills. I don't know how this kind of think is legal, but seems like this sleazy property owner, who used his son as the realtor of sale got away with it. So in the end the city lost what could have been a great heritage conversion and 700k. Seems like the city dropped the ball on this one.   

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/973...4-million/

I don't think it's the city dropping the ball, so much as their hands being tied by provincial legislation. There clearly weren't any takers at the prior price point, so the city reduced it and wrote off the tax debt. The problem is that provincial law guarantees the owner the ability to buy at the auction's minimum bid. I think at the very least the owner should have to compete with everyone else in bidding on the property, but I'd also be happy to see a separate minimum set for the previous owner at the amount of taxes owing. Either way it's a loophole in provincial law.

[westwardloo]

Looks like the City gotten taken for about $700,000 on this property by the previous owners who bought to property for $1 and sold it for $1.4 million. No maintenance was done and no property tax were for over 20 years. The city tried to sell multiple time to recoup the outstanding bills. I don't know how this kind of think is legal, but seems like this sleazy property owner, who used his son as the realtor of sale got away with it. So in the end the city lost what could have been a great heritage conversion and 700k. Seems like the city dropped the ball on this one.   

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/973...4-million/

I don't think it's the city dropping the ball, so much as their hands being tied by provincial legislation. There clearly weren't any takers at the prior price point, so the city reduced it and wrote off the tax debt. The problem is that provincial law guarantees the owner the ability to buy at the auction's minimum bid. I think at the very least the owner should have to compete with everyone else in bidding on the property, but I'd also be happy to see a separate minimum set for the previous owner at the amount of taxes owing. Either way it's a loophole in provincial law.

I have to agree with limiting the ability for the previous owner to bid on the property. But obviously there was a buyer and they bought the property for $1.4 million vs the $1.2 million the city tried to sell for. Obviously potential buyers low-balled the city because they knew their hands were tied. If Ford wants the city to start trimming the waste and find efficiencies maybe the provincial government can do something about this loophole to stop these tax criminals.

[MidTowner]

I don't think it's the city dropping the ball, so much as their hands being tied by provincial legislation. There clearly weren't any takers at the prior price point, so the city reduced it and wrote off the tax debt. The problem is that provincial law guarantees the owner the ability to buy at the auction's minimum bid. I think at the very least the owner should have to compete with everyone else in bidding on the property, but I'd also be happy to see a separate minimum set for the previous owner at the amount of taxes owing. Either way it's a loophole in provincial law.

How many years did the City allow property taxes to go unpaid? All while incurring its own costs on other rate payers' behalf while this property owner did not maintain the property according to bylaws.

[panamaniac]

I'd be interested in understanding better why a property that seemed so difficult for the City to sell was lucrative as a private sale. Does the City use profession commercial real estate people, or is it "do it yourself"?

[taylortbb]

How many years did the City allow property taxes to go unpaid? All while incurring its own costs on other rate payers' behalf while this property owner did not maintain the property according to bylaws.

The city's hands are tied by provincial law. There aren't a lot of options the city has for forcing people to pay their property taxes, beyond the tax sale they did. Also, when a property is owned by a numbered corporation with no other assets it's not like there's any value in taking them to court.

[LesPio]

How many years did the City allow property taxes to go unpaid? All while incurring its own costs on other rate payers' behalf while this property owner did not maintain the property according to bylaws.

The city's hands are tied by provincial law. There aren't a lot of options the city has for forcing people to pay their property taxes, beyond the tax sale they did. Also, when a property is owned by a numbered corporation with no other assets it's not like there's any value in taking them to court.

If the property taxes go unpaid for 2 years and if the property is commercial then the city has the option of starting the process to sell the land.  This was totally mismanaged by the City.

[Spokes]

I'd be interested in understanding better why a property that seemed so difficult for the City to sell was lucrative as a private sale.  Does the City use profession commercial real estate people, or is it "do it yourself"?

Ya that's my thinking.  Why couldn't the city get what the owner got, or at least close

[ijmorlan]

I'd be interested in understanding better why a property that seemed so difficult for the City to sell was lucrative as a private sale.  Does the City use profession commercial real estate people, or is it "do it yourself"?

Ya that's my thinking.  Why couldn't the city get what the owner got, or at least close

I think the City has to sell it using some very constrained auction process.

That being said, I still want to know what happens if the City tries to expropriate a property that is owing lots of taxes and contaminated to the point where the market value less taxes and cleanup costs is less than $0. They should be able to just confiscate it if they want. Don’t like it? Pay your taxes! (and clean up the ground)

[KevinL]

Some more context - the headline strikes me as a touch overdone, but it's good to have details. https://www.therecord.com/news-story/977...its-owner/

"The legislation was such where a city — any city — could be left saddled with an environmentally contaminated property that all of a sudden would have become the burden of the taxpayers in the city of Kitchener," Vrbanovic said.

According to the Ministry of Municipal Affairs, the law changed in 2003, removing the obligation for cities to take over a problem site that didn't sell in a tax sale.

Despite that change, it was almost decade before Kitchener acted to start a tax sale. "The City commenced the tax sale process with respect to Shanley Street in March of 2011," city solicitor Lesley MacDonald in an email. The first tax sale took place six years later in 2017 but failed to yield a successful bid.

[bpoland]

There was an excavator and Kieswetter Demolition van on the site this morning. They had some of the doors open but couldn't tell exactly what they were doing as I went by.

[WLU]

There was an excavator and Kieswetter Demolition van on the site this morning.  They had some of the doors open but couldn't tell exactly what they were doing as I went by.

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/980...emolished/

[Chris]

Update from CTV Kitchener with demolition starting today. Shannondale Developments hopes to have a 6-8 story mixed use building in place in 4 years. I'd guess approvals and remediation will take up most of that time? Seems long for a property that size otherwise.


Demolition begins on former Electrohome building

[panamaniac]

Update from CTV Kitchener with demolition starting today. Shannondale Developments hopes to have a 6-8 story mixed use building in place in 4 years. I'd guess approvals and remediation will take up most of that time? Seems long for a property that size otherwise.


Demolition begins on former Electrohome building

That sounds like the perfect scale for the location.  With the building gone, are the environmental clean-up implications likely to become clear quickly?

[MidTowner]

There has been extensive monitoring of the contamination in past years, so they should have a good idea already.

I agree that it's the perfect scale. And mixed-use, excellent, I really hope that winds up being the case.

[kitborn]

A wood fence and art has been installed on the old Electrohome site at Shanley Street.