ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[KevinL]

Our old friend Canardian was out checking it yesterday, and tweeting videos of speedy trains. He seemed satisfied.

[ac3r]

Was there am accident that caused a backup up or were they testing 8min headways yesterday. I saw one downtown go by south with another due in 8, I barely missed that one but there were two more after that both 8 min apart.

According to GRT's twitter account they were testing ATP and the previously planned 8 minute headways. Judging by the fact that you were seeing 8 minute gaps, it seems at least the headway part was going ok.  

https://twitter.com/grt_row/status/12725...19360?s=21

This would be the second time ATP has been tested during revenue operations, a few weeks ago was the first. There's a reply to the above tweet from a user who has previously identified himself as an LRV operator, and according to him the last test didn't go very well. Hopefully they were more successful this time, as it has been a long wait to get ATP up and running. Four days shy of one year in operation and LRVs are still limited to 50 km/h!

I have to say...the entire launch of light rail transit in Waterloo Region was pretty bad. Businesses lost money from construction, the trains were years late, ATP is nowhere to be seen anytime soon, people kept crashing into the vehicles because we ran it like a streetcar in the downtown/uptowns. It is not as bad as the LRT in Ottawa, where the malfunctions lead to massive logistical failures and thousands of people unable to get anywhere (granted, Ottawa has nearly 1'000'000 people), but the roll-out of everything was a bit messy.

[jeffster]

According to GRT's twitter account they were testing ATP and the previously planned 8 minute headways. Judging by the fact that you were seeing 8 minute gaps, it seems at least the headway part was going ok.  

https://twitter.com/grt_row/status/12725...19360?s=21

This would be the second time ATP has been tested during revenue operations, a few weeks ago was the first. There's a reply to the above tweet from a user who has previously identified himself as an LRV operator, and according to him the last test didn't go very well. Hopefully they were more successful this time, as it has been a long wait to get ATP up and running. Four days shy of one year in operation and LRVs are still limited to 50 km/h!

I have to say...the entire launch of light rail transit in Waterloo Region was pretty bad. Businesses lost money from construction, the trains were years late, ATP is nowhere to be seen anytime soon, people kept crashing into the vehicles because we ran it like a streetcar in the downtown/uptowns. It is not as bad as the LRT in Ottawa, where the malfunctions lead to massive logistical failures and thousands of people unable to get anywhere (granted, Ottawa has nearly 1'000'000 people), but the roll-out of everything was a bit messy.

I think some of this was expected, like contraction costing lost business and idiot drivers, but the ADP and train delays were something different. I know some were excited by the tardiness of the start-up, as a build up of anticipation, but I never saw it that way.

That said, I still think it is impressive we have an LRT in KW. Hopefully covid-19 clears up soon, so people start using it again.

[plam]

I have to say...the entire launch of light rail transit in Waterloo Region was pretty bad.

As you point out, it's relative. There are always going to be some start-up costs. Do they exceed the value provided? Could they have been less? (In some ways, yes, others, no; I'm as much in favour as anyone of eliminating systemic problems, like cars crashing into things, but can't imagine engineering the system to reduce that so much, at an acceptable point in the trade-off space).

[Square]

They have been using ATP since Tuesday.

[ijmorlan]

I have to say...the entire launch of light rail transit in Waterloo Region was pretty bad.

As you point out, it's relative. There are always going to be some start-up costs. Do they exceed the value provided? Could they have been less? (In some ways, yes, others, no; I'm as much in favour as anyone of eliminating systemic problems, like cars crashing into things, but can't imagine engineering the system to reduce that so much, at an acceptable point in the trade-off space).

Eliminating car crashes can’t be done without imposing an airplane-style level of training, certification, investigation, and enforcement on drivers. Combined with road maintenance fees, congestion charges, carbon taxes, and probably other fees I haven’t thought of, if we fully internalized the costs of driving it would probably become so expensive that public transit could start turning a profit again.

That being said, any smaller and more politically realistic measures that we can take are welcome. Examples include narrower lanes and better design of conflict points between motor vehicles and other traffic.

I’d start with much more use of solid concrete bollards. If cars are going to crash into stuff, it should be immediately as they leave their assigned right-of-way rather than later when they crash into whatever happens to be there.

[trainspotter139]

They have been using ATP since Tuesday.

Can confirm ATP is definitely on*.


* not all LRVs seem to be using it yet and drivers definitely need to get used to it being on. (Overspeed correction braking is a bit severe right now).

[plam]

As you point out, it's relative. There are always going to be some start-up costs. Do they exceed the value provided? Could they have been less? (In some ways, yes, others, no; I'm as much in favour as anyone of eliminating systemic problems, like cars crashing into things, but can't imagine engineering the system to reduce that so much, at an acceptable point in the trade-off space).

Eliminating car crashes can’t be done without imposing an airplane-style level of training, certification, investigation, and enforcement on drivers. Combined with road maintenance fees, congestion charges, carbon taxes, and probably other fees I haven’t thought of, if we fully internalized the costs of driving it would probably become so expensive that public transit could start turning a profit again.

That being said, any smaller and more politically realistic measures that we can take are welcome. Examples include narrower lanes and better design of conflict points between motor vehicles and other traffic.

I’d start with much more use of solid concrete bollards. If cars are going to crash into stuff, it should be immediately as they leave their assigned right-of-way rather than later when they crash into whatever happens to be there.

Agree mostly. Two points: 1) I'm pretty sure GO Transit is cheaper than single-occupancy vehicle driving already (if you include car depreciation, not just gas); 2) I'd be in favour of bollards, but they don't help with intersections, where most collisions happen. (Not that this is a reason not to use them).

[Wigs]

I have to say...the entire launch of light rail transit in Waterloo Region was pretty bad. Businesses lost money from construction, the trains were years late, ATP is nowhere to be seen anytime soon, people kept crashing into the vehicles because we ran it like a streetcar in the downtown/uptowns. It is not as bad as the LRT in Ottawa, where the malfunctions lead to massive logistical failures and thousands of people unable to get anywhere (granted, Ottawa has nearly 1'000'000 people), but the roll-out of everything was a bit messy.

Every new line has problems. Edmonton has been struggling not unlike Ottawa too.

Cost per mile of light rail is typically ~$100M (USD) /mile

Not sure on exact figure but let's say ION cost $900M.
900/12 = $75M/mile or roughly $55M (USD) /mile

I think compared to a typical American light rail, Waterloo did it quicker (once actual construction started)and much less expensive.

[bgb_ca]

Happy iONversary everyone. It's hard to believe it's already been one year since launch.

[panamaniac]

Happy iONversary everyone. It's hard to believe it's already been one year since launch.

And at least a couple of months since anybody drove their vehicle into one of the trains! 

[Wigs]

Happy iONversary Waterluvians!

[Bob_McBob]

Another ION collision, just when I was thinking it was a while since the last one.

https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/crash-invol...-1.4993999

[bgb_ca]

Happy iONversary everyone. It's hard to believe it's already been one year since launch.

And at least a couple of months since anybody drove their vehicle into one of the trains! 

Another ION collision, just when I was thinking it was a while since the last one.

https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/crash-invol...-1.4993999

So... Can we blame Panamaniac for this one?

[Square]

Does not surprise me a bit. Was in that area around 7pm, I saw a car blow a red light at 60km and if the elderly lady wasn't already half way past, this person would have killed her!

I find that during this COVID, the drivers doing so many wrong things are not staying home, but driving around to show off and or that they own the roads?!