ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[trainspotter139]

That's a weird spot. I walk that stretch daily. The Full Circle Foods parking lot exits directly on to the track. Based on where the car's damage was, the fact it was hitched on the tow truck next to the train (but on the road), one could surmise it was about to make a right into the parking lot - all there is, is a sign that says 'no turning, train'. I suppose if not paying close enough attention, could overlook this. There are no barriers that come down like they do on Courtland at the one dealership.

there are many crossings that don’t have a train gate.  And drivers are required to check their blind spots before turning. Prior to the LRT the driver would have turned directly across the sidewalk and it would be a pedestrian they ran over instead.

there is no excuse for this low level of attention to driving. It’s a forty foot train that she absolutely had to have passed to hit it (it only travels about 10km/h there).

The trains are 101'1" long. The length doesn't matter since drivers also can't see our 40' buses either Crash involving GRT bus sends one person to hospital

[Bob_McBob]

Another collision today, copying one of the first collisions last year turning into the same parking lot on Duke St.

https://www.reddit.com/r/kitchener/comme...reet_stop/

[KevinT]

Thanks. I heard them dealing with it on the scanner during my drive in to work but I never caught the location or vehicle number. That location seems odd as I could swear I heard vehicles turning back south at GRH and so assumed that it was somewhere north of that (unless two things happened this morning). Hopefully more details will emerge...

[Bob_McBob]

Does the region have any kind of plan to improve the situation with the CN freight train? I was looking through TransSee logs, and it seems like any ION trip to Conestoga can randomly be held at Waterloo Public Square station for up to 20 minutes after 11pm. It seems like rather poor planning to have a night service that is so unreliable, especially in the winter when riders may be counting on a transfer.

[ac3r]

I think all the region can do is negotiate with CN about the use of the spur line during ION operating hours. However, when dealing with freight companies, if you are leasing their lines, they are most likely always going to claim priority over anyone else using the tracks. CN is a hard company to negotiate with, so I'm not sure what the region can really do but keep asking. But, just due to the logistics of freight train transportation, it's real hard to make any deal if there is a load of cars sitting in Elmira that they need to get onto the mainline so it can be sent out to whoever buys the chemicals from Elmira. They will most likely not hold up a freight train that is destined to go to Detroit, Chicago, Vancouver etc just so the ION isn't delayed 20 minutes. That is tens or hundreds of thousands - if not millions of dollars - in freight where a delayed ION is basically pocket change in fares.

ION Phase 2 was originally planned to use the CP tracks into Cambridge, but it seems they realized that it would be a real problem due to the frequency of CP trains coming from Toyota and various industries in Guelph, and decided to build a series of viaducts instead, because CP wouldn't hold up their trains so the ION can be running on time.

[jamincan]

Doesn't the Region own the Spur Line?

[ijmorlan]

ION Phase 2 was originally planned to use the CP tracks into Cambridge, but it seems they realized that it would be a real problem due to the frequency of CP trains coming from Toyota and various industries in Guelph, and decided to build a series of viaducts instead, because CP wouldn't hold up their trains so the ION can be running on time.

Cite? My understanding is that the previous proposed Phase 2 route was to run immediately parallel to the CP tracks, not actually share trackage.

[ijmorlan]

Doesn't the Region own the Spur Line?

Yes, but the freight still has to be allowed to get through.

I wish I understood more about what takes the time however — it’s not that far to Elmira; I would have thought that 4 hours (01:00-05:00) would be enough time to get to Elmira, switch cars, and get back. I don’t know if they go more slowly than I assume (which could be fixed by improving the track), or if the switching is just more complicated and time consuming than I imagine (not so easy to fix).

[Bob_McBob]

The region owns the spur line and has complete control over scheduling. CN has to wait for authorization from the control centre at the derail every time they run a train. I don't know what specific rules are being followed in terms of LRVs sharing the line with freight. The way they do it right now, 2-3 nights a week the freight train essentially eliminates a scheduled ION trip at a random time between 11pm and midnight.

I had heard about these delays in passing from ION riders, and I finally took the time to check it out on TransSee. On one particularly bad night (Jan 16), 504 was held at Waterloo Public Square for 25 minutes, which meant 510 had to be held at Allen and also ended up 15 minutes late. These delays are slowly made up all the way to Conestoga and back to Fairway because they're so long, but on this night even that wasn't enough, and it really messed up the schedule. Sometimes Fairway-bound LRVs are held at Waterloo Park while the freight train is on the line, but they're released before the Conestoga-bound LRV so it doesn't seem like the freight train has to completely clear Northfield before ION traffic resumes.

I don't know what is a reasonable solution here. I doubt CN would be willing to work within the limited time ION is out of service (~2am to 4:30am), especially if it meant running the train back and forth on subsequent nights. Integrating the train into the schedule would require CN to follow an actual fixed schedule, but right now they basically send a train whenever they feel like it. It seems like they try to keep the LRVs held at Waterloo Public Square for 15 minutes or less so it at least doesn't affect the next trip, but the random nature of CN's scheduling means you simply cannot rely on ION for connections at this time of night, and that is really unacceptable.

[danbrotherston]

Doesn't the Region own the Spur Line?

Yes, but the freight still has to be allowed to get through.

I wish I understood more about what takes the time however — it’s not that far to Elmira; I would have thought that 4 hours (01:00-05:00) would be enough time to get to Elmira, switch cars, and get back. I don’t know if they go more slowly than I assume (which could be fixed by improving the track), or if the switching is just more complicated and time consuming than I imagine (not so easy to fix).

First of all, this is simply not true, the region could say no to freight. It wouldn't be a good idea and it would probably result in expensive lawsuits but there is nothing protected about freight. 

That being said they absolutely could force them to do it after hours. If four hours isn't enough time to do the drop (which seems strange but I'm not a railway operator) then they could do it over two days. Definitely more expensive. But not impossible.

[taylortbb]

First of all, this is simply not true, the region could say no to freight. It wouldn't be a good idea and it would probably result in expensive lawsuits but there is nothing protected about freight. 

The Region's agreement with CN was in a council report. The agreement very specifically includes the region's right to terminate freight service at contract renewal, which is every few years, if it interferes excessively with ION operations.

I think the reason they won't is that ending CN service to Elmira would effectively force the Chemtura plant to close, and everyone to lose their job. The news story would then be "ION causes loss of hundreds (thousands?) of jobs" .
Chemtura is I think the biggest employer in Elmira.

[panamaniac]

First of all, this is simply not true, the region could say no to freight. It wouldn't be a good idea and it would probably result in expensive lawsuits but there is nothing protected about freight. 

The Region's agreement with CN was in a council report. The agreement very specifically includes the region's right to terminate freight service at contract renewal, which is every few years, if it interferes excessively with ION operations.

I think the reason they won't is that ending CN service to Elmira would effectively force the Chemtura plant to close, and everyone to lose their job. The news story would then be "ION causes loss of hundreds (thousands?) of jobs" .
Chemtura is I think the biggest employer in Elmira.

I think Chemtura employs fewer than 200 people at the Elmira plant.

[ijmorlan]

I had heard about these delays in passing from ION riders, and I finally took the time to check it out on TransSee. On one particularly bad night (Jan 16), 504 was held at Waterloo Public Square for 25 minutes, which meant 510 had to be held at Allen and also ended up 15 minutes late. These delays are slowly made up all the way to Conestoga and back to Fairway because they're so long, but on this night even that wasn't enough, and it really messed up the schedule. Sometimes Fairway-bound LRVs are held at Waterloo Park while the freight train is on the line, but they're released before the Conestoga-bound LRV so it doesn't seem like the freight train has to completely clear Northfield before ION traffic resumes.

Interesting. I strongly suspect they are being overcautious with the separation; the southbound LRV should move on from Waterloo Park to the signal just south of the bridge over the creek as soon as the freight crosses King. Then once the freight has cleared the interlocking, it should switch forthwith to allow the southbound LRV to continue; then as soon as that has cleared it should switch to allow the northbound LRV to proceed.

I await with baited breath the detailed explanations from railway signal engineers why this would actually be dangerous. My argument is basically that if regular traffic driven by the usual level of skilled driver we see on the roads every day can be trusted with level crossings, then trained LRV operators can be trusted to stop at a red signal and only proceed when it turns green after the freight has left. They don’t need to hold 600m up the track.

[ijmorlan]

The Region's agreement with CN was in a council report. The agreement very specifically includes the region's right to terminate freight service at contract renewal, which is every few years, if it interferes excessively with ION operations.

I think the reason they won't is that ending CN service to Elmira would effectively force the Chemtura plant to close, and everyone to lose their job. The news story would then be "ION causes loss of hundreds (thousands?) of jobs" .
Chemtura is I think the biggest employer in Elmira.

I think Chemtura employs fewer than 200 people at the Elmira plant.

I did not know the Region had the right to terminate freight service. I wonder how that fits in with the laws governing railways? My understanding is that normally if a railway company wants to close a line, they have to go through an extensive abandonment process, which includes the right for somebody else to come along and buy the line for the purpose of operating it.

Also I should mention that it’s not just Chemtura — there is at least one other company up in Elmira that takes tank cars, and the Home Hardware in St. Jacobs (store, not, strangely, the distribution centre) also takes lumber deliveries. I doubt loss of the railway would really make much difference to the store — they would just get more trucks in. I don’t know about the other customers.

[KevinT]

Interesting. I strongly suspect they are being overcautious with the separation; the southbound LRV should move on from Waterloo Park to the signal just south of the bridge over the creek as soon as the freight crosses King. Then once the freight has cleared the interlocking, it should switch forthwith to allow the southbound LRV to continue; then as soon as that has cleared it should switch to allow the northbound LRV to proceed.

I await with baited breath the detailed explanations from railway signal engineers why this would actually be dangerous. My argument is basically that if regular traffic driven by the usual level of skilled driver we see on the roads every day can be trusted with level crossings, then trained LRV operators can be trusted to stop at a red signal and only proceed when it turns green after the freight has left. They don’t need to hold 600m up the track.

I'd be surprised if they weren't also de-energizing the overhead catenary system (OCS) on the shared segment when the freight train is on the line. This would affect a much larger block of track, and you wouldn't want any LRVs to be sitting cold and dark (or warm and dark in summer) on an un-powered section with passengers on board.