Walking in Waterloo Region

[jeffster]

I wish everyone had a better understanding of the rules about crosswalks and crossovers. I just had a group of adults screaming obscenities at me because they expected me to stop and let them cross from a refuge island on an open section of road. The same section has a school crossing where I've had people step out in front of the car because they think they have the right of way at all times. I'm obviously not going to mow down someone who's already crossing when I get there, and I always try to be courteous to pedestrians when I'm driving, but I refuse to give someone the wave of death by stopping to let them cross when I have the right of way.

Stuff like that, for me anyway, depends on the day. If there is no traffic behind me and the light(s) ahead are red, I usually stop, though I don't have to. At the same time, if I'm the pedestrian on that refuge island, I'll wait until traffic clears or someone stops. But both pedestrians and drivers need to learn the rules of the road. I've almost been run over at crosswalks (even with the flashing lights) and been given the finger (at refuge islands) while driving. Days like this, I miss my time in Toronto and Ohio where people actually knew the rules of road, both pedestrians and drivers. Though I do blame the lazy police force we have to some extent.

[danbrotherston]

I wish everyone had a better understanding of the rules about crosswalks and crossovers. I just had a group of adults screaming obscenities at me because they expected me to stop and let them cross from a refuge island on an open section of road. The same section has a school crossing where I've had people step out in front of the car because they think they have the right of way at all times. I'm obviously not going to mow down someone who's already crossing when I get there, and I always try to be courteous to pedestrians when I'm driving, but I refuse to give someone the wave of death by stopping to let them cross when I have the right of way.

Stuff like that, for me anyway, depends on the day. If there is no traffic behind me and the light(s) ahead are red, I usually stop, though I don't have to. At the same time, if I'm the pedestrian on that refuge island, I'll wait until traffic clears or someone stops.  But both pedestrians and drivers need to learn the rules of the road. I've almost been run over at crosswalks (even with the flashing lights) and been given the finger (at refuge islands) while driving. Days like this, I miss my time in Toronto and Ohio where people actually knew the rules of road, both pedestrians and drivers. Though I do blame the lazy police force we have to some extent.

Please don't stop. If there is nobody behind you it will take longer for you to stop then to just proceed. If to do have someone behind you they may overtake you and hit the ped. 

And yes, I only put a little blame on drivers. The real problem is inconsistent poor design and inconsistent poor laws.

[ijmorlan]

Stuff like that, for me anyway, depends on the day. If there is no traffic behind me and the light(s) ahead are red, I usually stop, though I don't have to. At the same time, if I'm the pedestrian on that refuge island, I'll wait until traffic clears or someone stops.  But both pedestrians and drivers need to learn the rules of the road. I've almost been run over at crosswalks (even with the flashing lights) and been given the finger (at refuge islands) while driving. Days like this, I miss my time in Toronto and Ohio where people actually knew the rules of road, both pedestrians and drivers. Though I do blame the lazy police force we have to some extent.

Please don't stop. If there is nobody behind you it will take longer for you to stop then to just proceed. If to do have someone behind you they may overtake you and hit the ped. 

And yes, I only put a little blame on drivers. The real problem is inconsistent poor design and inconsistent poor laws.

Agreed. I actually find it more annoying when a single car stops — as Dan says, if they would just continue driving they would be clear and I could cross sooner than if I have to wait to make sure they’re stopped and intend for me to go.

The only time it’s OK for a car to stop is if by doing so it stops an entire lane of traffic, allowing bicycles and pedestrians to cross. Note that this implies that there is only a single lane per direction, and that the other direction is empty. There is no point in one direction stopping if the other direction isn’t.

[jamincan]

I've had it before where people have stopped while traffic is still moving in other lanes, and then they get irritated at me for not crossing. Except for rare circumstances, the courtesy is rarely a convenience.

[danbrotherston]

Please don't stop. If there is nobody behind you it will take longer for you to stop then to just proceed. If to do have someone behind you they may overtake you and hit the ped. 

And yes, I only put a little blame on drivers. The real problem is inconsistent poor design and inconsistent poor laws.

Agreed. I actually find it more annoying when a single car stops — as Dan says, if they would just continue driving they would be clear and I could cross sooner than if I have to wait to make sure they’re stopped and intend for me to go.

The only time it’s OK for a car to stop is if by doing so it stops an entire lane of traffic, allowing bicycles and pedestrians to cross. Note that this implies that there is only a single lane per direction, and that the other direction is empty. There is no point in one direction stopping if the other direction isn’t.

Not just that the other lane is empty, but the other lane is blocked, so to prevent vehicles overtaking the stopping vehicle.  I was very nearly hit by a driver who did this on Victoria.  Union is also bad because while there is really only one lane, plenty of drivers will go around a stopping vehicle.

[tomh009]

Queen St S, which Acitta referred to, is a single lane of traffic in each direction.

[danbrotherston]

Queen St S, which Acitta referred to, is a single lane of traffic in each direction.

I honestly don't know what he was going on about.

As I stated, the other lane has to be blocked, a median would indeed be blocking access to the other lane.

[eh-cun71]

The region expanded the scope of the protected cycling lanes pilot project in Waterloo to include a pedestrian signal at the University and Lester intersection.
https://regionofwaterloo.bidsandtenders....#Submitted

This stretch of road constantly has students jaywalking across it, and is where a teenager died back in February. 
https://www.therecord.com/news-story/915...-waterloo/ 
I think it will be well used and significantly cut down on the number of jaywalkers. Hopefully it includes some kind of signal timing with the Uni/Phillip intersection since they are so close to each other.

[danbrotherston]

The region expanded the scope of the protected cycling lanes pilot project in Waterloo to include a pedestrian signal at the University and Lester intersection.
https://regionofwaterloo.bidsandtenders....#Submitted

This stretch of road constantly has students jaywalking across it, and is where a teenager died back in February. 
https://www.therecord.com/news-story/915...-waterloo/ 
I think it will be well used and significantly cut down on the number of jaywalkers. Hopefully it includes some kind of signal timing with the Uni/Phillip intersection since they are so close to each other.

This is a good thing, but the cycle time must be short, the one at the Laurel trail can be almost 2 minutes sometimes, which is an excessive wait.

Regional engineers could improve the cycle time by reducing the ped walk time (counter-intuitive I know), but it makes sense, peds don't arrive as frequently as cars, it makes sense to send them in groups frequently, but to cycle the light quickly. Of course, our regional engineers would have to notice that peds aren't cars for this to happen.

[MidTowner]

This is a good thing, but the cycle time must be short, the one at the Laurel trail can be almost 2 minutes sometimes, which is an excessive wait.

Regional engineers could improve the cycle time by reducing the ped walk time (counter-intuitive I know), but it makes sense, peds don't arrive as frequently as cars, it makes sense to send them in groups frequently, but to cycle the light quickly. Of course, our regional engineers would have to notice that peds aren't cars for this to happen.

There are real limits to how short the crossing time can be on a wide road. It has to accommodate the slowest people who will be using it- people with mobility issues, older people, children.

I agree that cycle times should be shorter than unfortunately they are in many places around the Region. The longer a person waits for traffic, the more likely he is to take risks when finally deciding to cross. Perceived time can be very long when a person has no real idea when the light will change, and a two minute wait may well mean that the crossing does not decrease jaywalking that much, and maybe even increase the riskiest instances of it.

[danbrotherston]

There are real limits to how short the crossing time can be on a wide road. It has to accommodate the slowest people who will be using it- people with mobility issues, older people, children.

I agree that cycle times should be shorter than unfortunately they are in many places around the Region. The longer a person waits for traffic, the more likely he is to take risks when finally deciding to cross. Perceived time can be very long when a person has no real idea when the light will change, and a two minute wait may well mean that the crossing does not decrease jaywalking that much, and maybe even increase the riskiest instances of it.

The crossing time with the flashing hand should already accommodate the slowest people (I'm aware this is possibly not the case now), the walk sign doesn't have to be on for more than the 1-2 seconds it would take the group to start walking.

Additionally, the time can be broken up using a centre median...this was quite common in the Netherlands where crossings were staged, and could easily be done on University (at least if our traffic signal system is up to the task, from what I've seen we're living in the dark ages here).

[welltoldtales]

Stuff like that, for me anyway, depends on the day. If there is no traffic behind me and the light(s) ahead are red, I usually stop, though I don't have to. At the same time, if I'm the pedestrian on that refuge island, I'll wait until traffic clears or someone stops.  But both pedestrians and drivers need to learn the rules of the road. I've almost been run over at crosswalks (even with the flashing lights) and been given the finger (at refuge islands) while driving. Days like this, I miss my time in Toronto and Ohio where people actually knew the rules of road, both pedestrians and drivers. Though I do blame the lazy police force we have to some extent.

Please don't stop. If there is nobody behind you it will take longer for you to stop then to just proceed. If to do have someone behind you they may overtake you and hit the ped. 

And yes, I only put a little blame on drivers. The real problem is inconsistent poor design and inconsistent poor laws.

I get this sentiment, but I also believe that drivers need a constant reminder that they are not the priority.

Having toured much of the rest of Canada I will say that many other cities have a culture of stopping first. Regional officials tell me this is because of their highway acts but I don't buy it (go to north of Thunder Bay and you will see similar driver behaviour to Prince George or Antigonish). Could our infra be better, HELL YES! But we also far too often let drivers have complete right of way everywhere.

I am white and have a ton of privilege so I leverage that. I will happily lay my vehicle, my body across the line to protect vulnerable users and they can come at me all day.

[danbrotherston]

Please don't stop. If there is nobody behind you it will take longer for you to stop then to just proceed. If to do have someone behind you they may overtake you and hit the ped. 

And yes, I only put a little blame on drivers. The real problem is inconsistent poor design and inconsistent poor laws.

I get this sentiment, but I also believe that drivers need a constant reminder that they are not the priority.

Having toured much of the rest of Canada I will say that many other cities have a culture of stopping first. Regional officials tell me this is because of their highway acts but I don't buy it (go to north of Thunder Bay and you will see similar driver behaviour to Prince George or Antigonish). Could our infra be better, HELL YES! But we also far too often let drivers have complete right of way everywhere.

I am white and have a ton of privilege so I leverage that. I will happily lay my vehicle, my body across the line to protect vulnerable users and they can come at me all day.

So, laws not withstanding, the problem is consistency, I have been very nearly run over two separate times now, when a car stopped for me improperly and I was in a big enough hury to cross out of turn, because cars behind them overtook on the wrong side of the road, and nearly hit me while looking the wrong way.

Further, most of the time, drivers stop when they aren't going to save anyone time, traffic in the other direction means that I cannot cross anyway, and more, as I said, if you're the last in the line of traffic, slowing down actually takes more time, everyone gets delayed.

Worse, many drivers do not take kindly to me yielding.  I have been called out by a WRPS officer, I have gotten the bird, been cussed out.

Trust me, our crossings are pessimal.

And yes, many other places are far better.

[goggolor]

First time I've seen this anywhere - at Caroline & John the pedestrian assist button has been moved to the end of a two foot metal rod, presumably to make it easier to reach.



Ironically, kitty-corner to this is a pedestrian assist button that's (temporarily) unreachable since it's on the other side of the construction fencing.

[timio]

Bets on how long it takes before someone's taken a baseball bat or other device to this?