Parking in Waterloo Region

[Canard]

Ah, cool. I'm ok with a mark on the tread. I was picturing a scribed mark on the sidewall.

[Pheidippides]

Perhaps someone can help explain this story about the Waterloo Parkade upgrades to me?

My questions are:
Where do all the parking fees go, the general operating budget or into a parking capital budget?
Do the fees collected from the lots and parkade cover the costs of operating and maintaining them? If not, what per cent of the "break-even" point do the current fee structure represent?


I ask because I am puzzled by the cost sharing of the work. If at least 324 of the 468 spots are occupied, according to the article, and if they are paid for at the monthly rate ($146.41) that would bring in nearly $570,000 a year not including other users (daily, other monthly permit holders, etc.); which, over 10 years would be nearly $5.7 million or more than double what is suggested is required in the article ($2.4 million). So why is additional funding needed?


The city of waterloo has a report on the project here (page 120).
"...$66,000, funded from the Parking Reserve...$146,000 from the Region of Waterloo..."

"Through the Parkade agreement between the City of Waterloo and the Region of Waterloo capital and operating costs are shared between the two parties based on their proportionate occupancy of the building. Therefore 69% of these repairs will be funded by the Region of Waterloo and 31% will be funded from the City’s Parking Reserve."

[Coke6pk]

Why both, i.e. old-school chalk plus hi-tech recorded in handheld? And how do they know if you've moved your vehicle every 2h59m?

And just for clarification (so you don't blame me for wrong information if you get tagged), Kitchener downtown is a different issue.  The core has a 5 hour re-parking by-law. (The map for the area is actually posted on the parking signs).  No chalk there.  If your licence plate is entered, and it is found in the downtown core between 2-5 hours later, you'll also get an invitation to the courthouse!  

[ookpik]

Kitchener downtown is a different issue.  The core has a 5 hour re-parking by-law. (The map for the area is actually posted on the parking signs).  No chalk there.  If your licence plate is entered, and it is found in the downtown core between 2-5 hours later, you'll also get an invitation to the courthouse!  

The Waterloo Town Square parking lot has a similar reparking rule.

IMO it's silly because people have many legitimate, business and personal, reasons to visit Uptown or Downtown more than once a day. These could be related, e.g. to drop something off and then pick it up later in the day, or not.

I appreciate the need to "discourage" people who work in the cores from moving their cars from spot to spot in order to park free for the day. But surely there has to be a better way to do that than pissing off occasional visitors who are using the free parking incentive to patronize businesses in the core.

[Canard]

So basically the 5 hour thing means you're not allowed to shop or do business for more than 5 hours downtown. That's nice.

[mpd618]

So basically the 5 hour thing means you're not allowed to shop or do business for more than 5 hours downtown. That's nice.

Without parking in a pay lot.

I think the incentives we have are really odd - it's the more-convenient street parking that should cost money and be encouraged to turn over, rather than off-street parking.

[panamaniac]

So basically the 5 hour thing means you're not allowed to shop or do business for more than 5 hours downtown. That's nice.

Without parking in a pay lot.

I think the incentives we have are really odd - it's the more-convenient street parking that should cost money and be encouraged to turn over, rather than off-street parking.

There's a good example on Duke St between Frederick and Ontario Sts - two hours free parking in an area where the businesses and services would benefit by paid parking with a one hour time limit.

[Coke6pk]

So here is why Kitchener has a 5hr reparking limit.

A long time ago, we had parking meters throughout the downtown. Local business complained that customers wouldn't come to their shops, as the malls had free parking. There was lengthy deliberation, but the city in helping downtown business removed all the meters and started 2 hrs free parking. This began the process of downtown businesses parking downtown and moving their cars every two hours (a process that likely still happens today). Customers complained to the city there was no parking except for the paid lots (which were now empty as the workers were on street)... hence, the 5 hour reparking.

There is a game played with by-law where you park for a little more than 2 hrs, then move to a paid lot/outside core for 3, then move back for the rest of your shift. Sometimes they win, sometimes by-law wins.

Coke

[ookpik]

So here is why Kitchener has a 5hr reparking limit...

Yes, I think that's pretty obvious. But the "solution" is counterproductive. Legitimate customers who have legitimate reasons for patronizing downtown merchants more than once a day are subject to parking tickets for their legitimate use of "free" parking. IOW Kitchener's and Waterloo's reparking policy penalizes the most loyal customers of downtown merchants, i.e. those who do business in the core most frequently.

I appreciate that there was abuse by people who work downtown, i.e. the employees of businesses who complain that they're losing business to the suburbs due to free parking. ISTM those employers have a problem with those employees. Why is the city aiding and abetting them in disciplining their employess? After all the businesss themselves have more powerful tools to deal with this issue--without antagonizing their own customers in the process.

[MidTowner]

If the businesses are interested in offering their patrons "free" parking, they should invite people in to their stores to reimburse their parking charges. The mall pays for (some of) their patrons to park; it doesn't ask for the taxpayers to do it.

No period of on-street parking should be without a charge to the person actually using it. If there are downtown employees willing to leave their workplace every two hours to move their car from one street parking space to another one outside of the core, obviously those street parking places are valuable commodities and we should be charging for them. It's not so much the 5-hour "no reparking" rule that is the problem; it's that two hours are offered "free" in the first place.

[taylortbb]

So here is why Kitchener has a 5hr reparking limit...

I appreciate that there was abuse by people who work downtown, i.e. the employees of businesses who complain that they're losing business to the suburbs due to free parking. ISTM those employers have a problem with those employees. Why is the city aiding and abetting them in disciplining their employess? After all the businesss themselves have more powerful tools to deal with this issue--without antagonizing their own customers in the process.

The problem is not just the employees of the retail stores that are taking the on street parking. Employees of the downtown businesses, such as Manulife, Sun Life, governments, Google, Desire to Learn, etc are taking these parking spaces. Those companies have no incentive to discipline their employees for doing it, because they're not retail businesses with customer parking.

[DHLawrence]

My experience with reparking was a necessary one. I was bringing books to the used bookstores; one store wouldn't take some, but the other would. Nobody's going to park in one spot (free or pay) and carry a box of books all the way down to the other end of King Street.

[ookpik]

No period of on-street parking should be without a charge to the person actually using it.... It's not so much the 5-hour "no reparking" rule that is the problem; it's that two hours are offered "free" in the first place.

I don't have a problem with that principle. The downtown merchants have a problem with that principle. Good luck convincing them of the error in their ways.

My experience with reparking was a necessary one. I was bringing books to the used bookstores; one store wouldn't take some, but the other would. Nobody's going to park in one spot (free or pay) and carry a box of books all the way down to the other end of King Street.

I took our passport renewals to the passport office. The clerk didn't like my wife's passport photo and rejected her application. So I went back home, got her to have her photo retaken (in Waterloo) then went back to the passport office to resubmit her application. I didn't even realize that parking in the core the second time that day was considered a crime in Kitchener. 

Now imagine if she'd driven the car instead of me and got a ticket for "reparking" without even realizing the car had had the temerity to be parked in the core earlier in the day...

[clasher]

I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to figure out who was parking downtown every day and start issuing those people tickets rather just the occasional visitor that happens to park all over downtown visiting a bunch of different businesses. License-plate reading technology is scary-good these days and could conceivably be deployed to capture all this revenue from the worst offenders that are habitually parking for free instead of paying to store their.

Also what kind of boss lets their employees waste time every day going to move a car?

[nms]

Perhaps someone can help explain this story about the Waterloo Parkade upgrades to me?

I can only speculate that perhaps the Region gets preferential monthly parking rate for their staff in the Parkade with the expectation that the Region pitches in to help with upgrades when they are needed.

Which brings up the reparking issue at Waterloo Town Square...

Kitchener downtown is a different issue.  The core has a 5 hour re-parking by-law. (The map for the area is actually posted on the parking signs).  No chalk there.  If your licence plate is entered, and it is found in the downtown core between 2-5 hours later, you'll also get an invitation to the courthouse!  

The Waterloo Town Square parking lot has a similar reparking rule.

The Region purchased parking passes in the Parkade for their staff (and in fact, it would not surprise me if the Parkade was built partly to service the parking needs for Regional staff).  However, several years ago, the Waterloo Town Square lots were full while the Parkade was empty during daytime hours.  It was discovered that part of the problem was the Regional staff disliked parking in the Parkade and preferred to park in the surface lots instead.  Adding the 2-hour limit encouraged the Regional staff to park in the Parkade.