ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[ijmorlan]

I have a couple friends that work at GRT and both said something similar -- and they're thinking that LRT is likely summer 2020 at the earliest, or spring 2022 at the latest. Apparently 'not even remotely complete' but I have no idea what that means.

If it doesn’t open this year then somebody needs to lose their job. Actually, a whole industry should probably be replaced by more competent people.

A civilized society can complete testing/integration/burnin/whatever in less than 2 years.

[Rainrider22]

I have a couple friends that work at GRT and both said something similar -- and they're thinking that LRT is likely summer 2020 at the earliest, or spring 2022 at the latest. Apparently 'not even remotely complete' but I have no idea what that means.

If it doesn’t open this year then somebody needs to lose their job. Actually, a whole industry should probably be replaced by more competent people.

A civilized society can complete testing/integration/burnin/whatever in less than 2 years.

I agree. It is time to start holding people accountable through their employment status.I am not talking about the actual workers. I am talking about management. You take on the responsibility, then you take on the associated risk.   I wonder if we would end up with different results if there was real accountability ?!?!

[tomh009]

Kitchener Transit drivers are about to do their sign-up for the next spring period. I have been informed that they are signing routes that are currently in effect, meaning that the ION will not start until the next sign-up period (summer). However, it is possible to do a mini sign-up if the ION is completed.

I have a couple friends that work at GRT and both said something similar -- and they're thinking that LRT is likely summer 2020 at the earliest, or spring 2022 at the latest. Apparently 'not even remotely complete' but I have no idea what that means.

GRT employees are unlikely to have any more inside information than the members of this forum, though.

[jeffster]

I have a couple friends that work at GRT and both said something similar -- and they're thinking that LRT is likely summer 2020 at the earliest, or spring 2022 at the latest. Apparently 'not even remotely complete' but I have no idea what that means.

GRT employees are unlikely to have any more inside information than the members of this forum, though.

This is somewhat true -- but having worked for the government you'd be surprised how quickly words get out. I get a lot on messages in my inbox which is confidential. I had one interesting one that I did want to share, and I asked the sender (one of the high ranking employee in the region) if I could share the info (since I felt it should be shared) and the answer was "no". So I know some things about certain things, but I'm governed by my employment agreement not to share. However, the GRT guys would be under the same employment agreement as me - likely they can not share directly with anyone, but if there is some alluding to things, such as the LRT potential start dates, they might have some merit to what they are saying.

Working firsthand -- when it comes to timelines, they are generally meaningless. Only time it means something is for elections, school bus times, special events and Rangers Hockey (or really, anything at any community centre, pool or arena). Most other things. We just. Don't. Know.

[danbrotherston]

GRT employees are unlikely to have any more inside information than the members of this forum, though.

This is somewhat true -- but having worked for the government you'd be surprised how quickly words get out. I get a lot on messages in my inbox which is confidential. I had one interesting one that I did want to share, and I asked the sender (one of the high ranking employee in the region) if I could share the info (since I felt it should be shared) and the answer was "no".  So I know some things about certain things, but I'm governed by my employment agreement not to share. However, the GRT guys would be under the same employment agreement as me - likely they can not share directly with anyone, but if there is some alluding to things, such as the LRT potential start dates, they might have some merit to what they are saying.

Working firsthand -- when it comes to timelines, they are generally meaningless. Only time it means something is for elections, school bus times, special events and Rangers Hockey (or really, anything at any community centre, pool or arena). Most other things. We just. Don't. Know.

I don't think the original comment was in regard to GRT employees knowing things but not being able to tell us, but about the fact that GRT isn't the one building and testing the LRT.  I'm sure Grandlinq employees know a great deal about the state of testing, but GRT employees will know far far less.  Maybe they know more than us, but no guarantees.

As for timelines, certainly there is flexibility, but a properly managed project will have a well defined timeline, even if it may move as a result of unexpected things, all that *could* be communicated with the public, but obviously is not.

[jeffster]

This is somewhat true -- but having worked for the government you'd be surprised how quickly words get out. I get a lot on messages in my inbox which is confidential. I had one interesting one that I did want to share, and I asked the sender (one of the high ranking employee in the region) if I could share the info (since I felt it should be shared) and the answer was "no".  So I know some things about certain things, but I'm governed by my employment agreement not to share. However, the GRT guys would be under the same employment agreement as me - likely they can not share directly with anyone, but if there is some alluding to things, such as the LRT potential start dates, they might have some merit to what they are saying.

Working firsthand -- when it comes to timelines, they are generally meaningless. Only time it means something is for elections, school bus times, special events and Rangers Hockey (or really, anything at any community centre, pool or arena). Most other things. We just. Don't. Know.

I don't think the original comment was in regard to GRT employees knowing things but not being able to tell us, but about the fact that GRT isn't the one building and testing the LRT.  I'm sure Grandlinq employees know a great deal about the state of testing, but GRT employees will know far far less.  Maybe they know more than us, but no guarantees.

As for timelines, certainly there is flexibility, but a properly managed project will have a well defined timeline, even if it may move as a result of unexpected things, all that *could* be communicated with the public, but obviously is not.

Concerning the GRT and the Ion, they need to have constant communication with each other. Remember, once the LRT gets going, you'll see service reductions in some of the GRT routes, which means that staff that it retiring won't be replaced. But the longer the LRT isn't operating, the longer the GRT has to hire new operators as other staff retires, and those with longer tenures have increased vacation time (anyone hitting the 3 year mark, 9 years, 15 years, 23 years and 30 years). It's becoming a staffing issue. Normally had the LRT started working, you'd simply not replace retiring staff. As it stands, though, the need for more workers affects the GRT operators greatly, especially those requesting time off.

[taylortbb]

Concerning the GRT and the Ion, they need to have constant communication with each other. Remember, once the LRT gets going, you'll see service reductions in some of the GRT routes, which means that staff that it retiring won't be replaced. But the longer the LRT isn't operating, the longer the GRT has to hire new operators as other staff retires, and those with longer tenures have increased vacation time (anyone hitting the 3 year mark, 9 years, 15 years, 23 years and 30 years). It's becoming a staffing issue. Normally had the LRT started working, you'd simply not replace retiring staff. As it stands, though, the need for more workers affects the GRT operators greatly, especially those requesting time off.

I'm pretty sure that's not accurate. The new GRT route network that will launch when ION does has the same number of service hours as the current network. All the surplus service hours from the 7/200 are getting transferred to other routes.

Also, as someone that's spent a lot of time talking to both GRT and rapid transit staff, they're run inside the region as two separate divisions. That's why we got dumb things, like the rapid transit team assuming service until 11:30pm was adequate, not realizing GRT already ran until 1am. Or why ION stations were located without considering bus connections.

GRT is also run as two pretty separate divisions, between planning and operations. The planning division needs to be somewhat in the loop on Ion, but I'd be really surprised if GRT drivers had any inside info.

[trainspotter139]

Concerning the GRT and the Ion, they need to have constant communication with each other. Remember, once the LRT gets going, you'll see service reductions in some of the GRT routes, which means that staff that it retiring won't be replaced. But the longer the LRT isn't operating, the longer the GRT has to hire new operators as other staff retires, and those with longer tenures have increased vacation time (anyone hitting the 3 year mark, 9 years, 15 years, 23 years and 30 years). It's becoming a staffing issue. Normally had the LRT started working, you'd simply not replace retiring staff. As it stands, though, the need for more workers affects the GRT operators greatly, especially those requesting time off.

I'm pretty sure that's not accurate. The new GRT route network that will launch when ION does has the same number of service hours as the current network. All the surplus service hours from the 7/200 are getting transferred to other routes.

Also, as someone that's spent a lot of time talking to both GRT and rapid transit staff, they're run inside the region as two separate divisions. That's why we got dumb things, like the rapid transit team assuming service until 11:30pm was adequate, not realizing GRT already ran until 1am. Or why ION stations were located without considering bus connections.

GRT is also run as two pretty separate divisions, between planning and operations. The planning division needs to be somewhat in the loop on Ion, but I'd be really surprised if GRT drivers had any inside info.

It isn't accurate at all. The GRT Business Plan 2017-2021 calls for service expansion in conjunction with launch of ION service.

[KevinL]

A Facebook commenter was at the Borden vehicle event earlier, says he heard that a launch date might be announced by the end of April.

[trainspotter139]

A Facebook commenter was at the Borden vehicle event earlier, says he heard that a launch date might be announced by the end of April.

I got talking to Tom Galloway there. He said that the Region got a bunch of good news recently about the state of the vehicles and the system. From what I gather 6 vehicles will have PAC by the end of this week or early next week, with the remaining vehicles approaching that level quickly. As for vehicles not going south of Cameron Crossover, there have been days where they have been going further than that but it depends on how many workers are present on the alignment doing work south of Cameron.

[trainspotter139]

It appears they have begun burn-in on some vehicles. Right now they are using Conestoga Stn. - Mill Stn. as limits.

[trainspotter139]

A Facebook commenter was at the Borden vehicle event earlier, says he heard that a launch date might be announced by the end of April.

Update: I e-mailed Tom Galloway and he says there's a report going to P&W for the April 30 meeting.

[KevinL]

It appears they have begun burn-in on some vehicles. Right now they are using Conestoga Stn. - Mill Stn. as limits.

I was certainly surprised when I saw one out at 9:30 last night! Definitely a positive sign.

[Rainrider22]

I have a question. I was out and about today and saw many trains out at various spots however, I never saw a train further south than Mill. As I drove along Courtland, I noticed that the tracks are very rusty on top and look like they have not been traveled on for sometime. I have been out of the country for a few weeks. Am I missing something. It doesn't seem positive if they are not travelling on tracks that they were previously travelling on...

[KevinL]

The train wheels have relatively little contact with the rails and do not make them 'shiny' as heavier freight traffic would. There currently is less testing in the section south of Mill, I believe because the signals there are relatively straightforward and the more complex areas need to be the focus of testing just now.