2019 Federal Election

[Rainrider22]

I think that loud sound I heard was the Liberal Party fracturing: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics...in-affair/

Holy cow.

I just did a quick read and it's pretty much what I expected: asking her to find a solution other than prosecution, but stopping short of telling her what to do.

Personally, for a corporation, I think that a negotiated settlement with specified remedies might be the best solution anyway (you can't put a corporation in jail anyway) but that's really a separate question from what's the focus of this enquiry.

I dont think you can say they didnt tell her what to do... and when she didnt do as they say, they relieved her of her duties..  no one will buy that they didnt cross the line   This woman is golden, I wouldnt want to be Justin et al .

[tomh009]

I just did a quick read and it's pretty much what I expected: asking her to find a solution other than prosecution, but stopping short of telling her what to do.

Personally, for a corporation, I think that a negotiated settlement with specified remedies might be the best solution anyway (you can't put a corporation in jail anyway) but that's really a separate question from what's the focus of this enquiry.

I dont think you can say they didnt tell her what to do... and when she didnt do as they say, they relieved her of her duties..  no one will buy that they didnt cross the line   This woman is golden, I wouldnt want to be Justin et al .

The implication is there, no doubt. But they were careful not to cross the line and directly tell her what to do. As I expected.

[Rainrider22]

I dont think you can say they didnt tell her what to do... and when she didnt do as they say, they relieved her of her duties..  no one will buy that they didnt cross the line   This woman is golden, I wouldnt want to be Justin et al .

The implication is there, no doubt. But they were careful not to cross the line and directly tell her what to do. As I expected.

Remember, she only spoke about what she was permitted to speak about. She has stated there is a lot of information under privilege still..

[MidTowner]

I don't think it's a very good word to use. But I think the point is fair. I can specifically recall several local candidates (candidate for councillor in Ward 10 last year; candidate for Kitchener Centre for the Tories in the provincial election) featuring pictures of their families in campaign materials. That's very very common, and obviously it's intended to convey something.

I suspect it's intended to convey "I understand and sympathize with families" more than "I am a heterosexual". This is not new, and existed long before same-sex relationships were acknowledged (or legal).

We have real, serious issues in our society that we need to address (such as aboriginal poverty, general lack of affordable housing and opioid addiction, for three). For me personally, the presence or absence of family photos in campaign materials doesn't rank very close to such issues.

You know that no one was suggesting that.

[MidTowner]

I just did a quick read and it's pretty much what I expected: asking her to find a solution other than prosecution, but stopping short of telling her what to do.

Personally, for a corporation, I think that a negotiated settlement with specified remedies might be the best solution anyway (you can't put a corporation in jail anyway) but that's really a separate question from what's the focus of this enquiry.

I dont think you can say they didnt tell her what to do... and when she didnt do as they say, they relieved her of her duties..  no one will buy that they didnt cross the line   This woman is golden, I wouldnt want to be Justin et al .

I think that the party will claim that a) she was not relieved of her duties, she was shuffled as a result of a resignation that was not foreseen; and b) she must herself not at the time seen anything wrong with what she is now characterizing as "political interference" since she didn't resign. I wonder what the average voter will think.

The fact that she is still in caucus while making these kinds of accusations against her leader seems like bizarre behaviour to me on both her part and the party's.

[robdrimmie]

I wonder what the average voter will think.

I can't claim to be an average voter, though I'm definitely not a close follower of federal politics beyond reading CBC News every few days. My preference is very much left, and I am proud to think of myself as a socialist. I was already pretty down on the Liberals for all the easy reasons, and this is just more standard Liberal bullshit that makes me hate voting for them. Liberals are the party of the status quo: A lot of compromises that benefit corporations, some moderately positive social progression, and a lot of shadiness, manipulation, and backroom dealing.

The Liberals and the CPC both work to keep themselves in power before they work to help the populace. That's something I firmly believe. I'm not saying the NDP and Greens wouldn't, given the chance, but I'd much rather give either party a chance to be assholes than vote for parties that just keeping confirming their asshole status.

[jeffster]

I just did a quick read and it's pretty much what I expected: asking her to find a solution other than prosecution, but stopping short of telling her what to do.

Personally, for a corporation, I think that a negotiated settlement with specified remedies might be the best solution anyway (you can't put a corporation in jail anyway) but that's really a separate question from what's the focus of this enquiry.

I dont think you can say they didnt tell her what to do... and when she didnt do as they say, they relieved her of her duties..  no one will buy that they didnt cross the line   This woman is golden, I wouldnt want to be Justin et al .

So much about all politicians being dishonest. Ms. Wilson-Raybould is awesome -- make her PM.

[Canard]

Amazing how much sway the media has in forming what a Country will end up being like.

I would encourage you all to delve deeper into this at your leisure to see what is really happening beyond the facade that the sensationalist Media and frothing Conservatives are spinning.

[panamaniac]

I am at a loss to know how one could have any knowledge of these issues beyond media coverage and the participants’ own testimony before the Parliamentary committee. Where would one go to “delve deeper”?

[jeffster]

Amazing how much sway the media has in forming what a Country will end up being like.

I would encourage you all to delve deeper into this at your leisure to see what is really happening beyond the facade that the sensationalist Media and frothing Conservatives are spinning.

No different than the treatment of the Conservatives from sensationalized media, right?

That said, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that our beloved leader has been lying, which is why he would never answer the question if he knew of the PMO calling the AG to not go after SNC-Lavalin. His response, and those in his tight knit group, would only respond "It's about jobs."

I just realized though that Trudeau worshippers are no different that Trump worshippers. The both have an extremist following, Trudeau from the left, and Trump from the right.

The reality is that there is no facade here, there is no sensationalism here. When the Toronto Star is pointing these things out, who are defenders of all things left, you know you have problems. Trudeau promised us transparency and honesty, and Canadians have gotten neither from him.

[jamincan]

Trudeau promised us transparency and honesty, and Canadians have gotten neither from him.

In fairness to Trudeau, the very fact that we heard JWR's testimony is a testament that he is more transparent than anyone else before him.

[danbrotherston]

Amazing how much sway the media has in forming what a Country will end up being like.

I would encourage you all to delve deeper into this at your leisure to see what is really happening beyond the facade that the sensationalist Media and frothing Conservatives are spinning.

No different than the treatment of the Conservatives from sensationalized media, right?

That said, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that our beloved leader has been lying, which is why he would never answer the question if he knew of the PMO calling the AG to not go after SNC-Lavalin. His response, and those in his tight knit group, would only respond "It's about jobs."

I just realized though that Trudeau worshippers are no different that Trump worshippers. The both have an extremist following, Trudeau from the left, and Trump from the right.

The reality is that there is no facade here, there is no sensationalism here. When the Toronto Star is pointing these things out, who are defenders of all things left, you know you have problems. Trudeau promised us transparency and honesty, and Canadians have gotten neither from him.

Don't fall into the trap of false equality.

Yes, there are extremists on the left.  They do not run the media, nor do they end up elected to the highest office, as is certainly the case in the US, I've seen this justified with false rhetoric all the time "a Hillary supporter said that capitalists are murderers, so it's okay for me to actually vote for a man who says Mexians are rapists, because both sides are equal".  Canada is not quite in the same state politically, but I believe I have been seeing the same kind of false equivalences being used.

While I have no love for Trudeau, he is not the equivalent of Trump, or Ford, or even Scheer at this point, even if some of his supporters are equally fanatical.

[ijmorlan]

Amazing how much sway the media has in forming what a Country will end up being like.

I would encourage you all to delve deeper into this at your leisure to see what is really happening beyond the facade that the sensationalist Media and frothing Conservatives are spinning.

“Delve deeper” in what way? What are you actually saying? What is the façade? What do you think is “really happening” behind said façade?

Since you refer to “frothing Conservatives”, I’m guessing you’re saying that the current scandal is to at least some extent being amplified to make the Liberals look bad. If so, I think that’s a reasonable thing to consider, and it certainly makes me unhappy to consider that Scheer’s Conservatives are likely to benefit from this Liberal misstep. But I think we would all be better served if you said so clearly. It’s also possible for the Liberals to have made a serious error that in an ideal world would result in some time in the political wilderness, and simultaneously the Conservatives not to be a suitable replacement.

[ijmorlan]

While I have no love for Trudeau, he is not the equivalent of Trump, or Ford, or even Scheer at this point, even if some of his supporters are equally fanatical.

Cannot be said enough. Trump and Ford are obviously and flagrantly unsuited for democratic leadership. This is independent of any particular person or group’s policy preferences. Honest Conservatives should be saying things like “We need to get rid of Ford and return to Conservative principles”. I don’t think Scheer is in the same “flagrantly unsuited” category, but I have the impression that he has done little to counteract extremism, which if true makes him not a good choice.

By contrast, the worst that can reasonably be said of Trudeau is that he is incompetent and clueless. I’m not necessarily saying that, although the current scandal makes me wonder.

[jeffster]

No different than the treatment of the Conservatives from sensationalized media, right?

That said, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that our beloved leader has been lying, which is why he would never answer the question if he knew of the PMO calling the AG to not go after SNC-Lavalin. His response, and those in his tight knit group, would only respond "It's about jobs."

I just realized though that Trudeau worshippers are no different that Trump worshippers. The both have an extremist following, Trudeau from the left, and Trump from the right.

The reality is that there is no facade here, there is no sensationalism here. When the Toronto Star is pointing these things out, who are defenders of all things left, you know you have problems. Trudeau promised us transparency and honesty, and Canadians have gotten neither from him.

Don't fall into the trap of false equality.

Yes, there are extremists on the left.  They do not run the media, nor do they end up elected to the highest office, as is certainly the case in the US, I've seen this justified with false rhetoric all the time "a Hillary supporter said that capitalists are murderers, so it's okay for me to actually vote for a man who says Mexians are rapists, because both sides are equal".  Canada is not quite in the same state politically, but I believe I have been seeing the same kind of false equivalences being used.

While I have no love for Trudeau, he is not the equivalent of Trump, or Ford, or even Scheer at this point, even if some of his supporters are equally fanatical.

I do agree that Trudeau is not Trump. They're very different in their wants and desires. What they do have in common are blind worshippers and a general inability to tell the truth 100%. However, just because one believes in climate change and the other doesn't, it doesn't make ones lies less worse than the other.

As for extremists on the left running the media, I will say they have some control, at least in the USA.

Just one example was this: https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2019...026886002/

Another one is this: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/l...816523002/

And this one: https://deadline.com/2019/03/washington-...202568450/

Really, poor reporting all around. But it does show that the media is controlled by more than one group. Sadly, with all the "Fake" news out there, it takes away from the 'real news' that worshippers refuse to believe. Such as the case with this SNC-Lavalin issue. Such as the case with the Russian collusion "Witch Hunt". They're both real, but both side refuse to believe.