Winter Walking and Cycling

[ijmorlan]

"data-driven discussion"!? Did he vote in favour or against the big study that was proposed and then cancelled?

Indeed. If he cares about data-driven discussion, then he voted for the study.

Note: I don’t actually know how he voted. But if he cares about data, he voted for it.

[MidTowner]

The only data I'm aware of were the result of the study that TriTAG conducted using volunteers to survey specific stretches of sidewalk. As I recall, some on city council questioned the methodology of that. I can't remember the specifics.

There will be data coming out of the surveys that city staff are conducting this winter. Hopefully the discussion is informed by those going forward.

[danbrotherston]

Get ready:

(I told him he'd better check out this thread, after making fun of my avatar, and telling me I hurt the feelings of city staff.)

"data-driven discussion"!? Did he vote in favour or against the big study that was proposed and then cancelled?

He absolutely voted against it.

Yeah, if he's interested in a data driven decision, he has a funny way of showing it.

[danbrotherston]

The only data I'm aware of were the result of the study that TriTAG conducted using volunteers to survey specific stretches of sidewalk. As I recall, some on city council questioned the methodology of that. I can't remember the specifics.

There will be data coming out of the surveys that city staff are conducting this winter. Hopefully the discussion is informed by those going forward.

If you want to question methodology, city staff (including Davey) voted to have enforcement be "city wide" meaning that it is impossible to evaluate it's effectiveness because you don't have areas to compare.

[danbrotherston]

[Canard]

I told them the shovels with google-eyes were creepy and he said I’d made someone feel bad who worked on it.

[Canard]

[MidTowner]

Do they work on statutory holidays?

I'm interested in the answer to these questions, too. From my perspective, this winter, it doesn't appear that they work any days at all. But, on paper, does bylaw enforcement work weekends?

Anyway, it's true: there was some snow today. Nevermind that a huge proportion of sidewalks are covered from Tuesday's precipitation, or that intersections as important as King and Victoria have windrows that make using the sidewalks almost impossible. It hasn't been 24 hours since those flakes, so no one is offside.

I called in to complain about a location this afternoon, and asked the call centre operator if there was enforcement on weekends. She said that there is, and they are out today as far as she knows.

She also added not to expect speedy enforcement, as they had received "over 1000 addresses" (she didn't specify over what time frame).

[Canard]

The Pingstreet app has an option when you say "what kind of problem" for unclear sidewalks. I reported a couple on my bike ride back home from the end of the Spurline Trail, they've been awful and haven't made any attempt and now have a ~5 cm thick layer of ice down.

[timio]

Anecdotally, I went for a walk this afternoon with kid and dog. About 30% of houses were bare, 30% made an attempt to get to concrete, 30% had shoveled snow but left all the ice, and the last 10% made no attempt. A few places I was left to find alternate pathways through (even the jogging stroller couldn't make it).

Regardless, I hate walking in winter because even though people make the effort, the daily melt/freeze cycle will make many sidewalks dangerous.

[Canard]

How can anyone think this system works, then? I agree with your observations, and I thin it's Dan who has pointed out many times that it only takes one repeat offender to basically completely stop your path if you're anything but a perfectly able-bodied person from climbing through.

Strangely, CTV Guelph ran a piece the other night... saying that people there HATED that the City was clearing the sidewalks and they wished they had our program!! What a strange world we live in...

[danbrotherston]

How can anyone think this system works, then?  I agree with your observations, and I thin it's Dan who has pointed out many times that it only takes one repeat offender to basically completely stop your path if you're anything but a perfectly able-bodied person from climbing through.

Strangely, CTV Guelph ran a piece the other night... saying that people there HATED that the City was clearing the sidewalks and they wished they had our program!!  What a strange world we live in...

Ironically, Mike Boos pointed out that we have about the same amount on sidewalk clearing equipment as Guelph, per total sidewalk KM in the city...meaning, we could probably get Guelph's level of service in KW without an additional spend.

The real story there was that providing bad service will make people angry.

And yeah, it was pretty stark today, I walked up the IHT to Uptown and then back down King, the trail was entirely clear, King was dangerous and blocked at many points.

The only way they think this system works, is able bodied folks who drive everywhere, who walk around their neighbourhood on occasion.

But yeah, it's good to hear they're open on weekends as well....

[jeffster]

Found this from Mr. Davey interesting: "or punish the good stewards of our city with higher taxation for the sake of the uncompassionate few who fail to do their civic duty."

1) Many people in this city are OLD! When we have rain, snow, ice pellets, freezing rain, etc, falling on our sidewalks, making these area's passable in a timely and regular fashion, is very difficult. It's hard enough for the able bodied to keep on top of this -- especially without the help of -- gasp -- salt, let alone those with disabilities, or the aged. Calling them "uncompassionate" is just wrong. Or perhaps Mr. Davey doesn't know what the definition of compassion is. Perhaps he needs to do research on what compassion is. I get that he did mention this in his editorial, but he's not understanding how widespread the problem is with people who simply are unable to handle this issue.

2) We're not 'punishing' 'good stewards' of 'our city' with 'high taxation' for the sake of those that are apparently 'uncompassionate'. What we're trying to do is create a safe passage for anyone that walks, cycles (I am fine with this), parents with strollers, and those on mobility scooters to travel safely and consistently.

3) No matter where you go in this city, there are huge chucks of sidewalks that haven't been cleared. This alleged 'few who fail to do their civic duty', is actually a huge number of people that either don't, or can't, do that 'civic duty'. What happens when we have out-of-town landlords that simply can't make it into the city safely due to the weather? Leave it up to the tenants to clear the ice and snow?

The only person I see here that is devoid of compassion is Mr. Davey.

What I do see is the city not wanting this responsibility, not because of a 3.5% hike in property taxes (and city portion only, excludes regional portion), but because of the concern of any lawsuits that might come about for failing to do this job in a timely fashion.

For what it's worth, I live in a section of Kitchener across from a forest. We're totally in-town, but no sidewalks. I don't use sidewalks as I drive everywhere, especially since they took away our GRT route away when the LRT was approved. But I am still okay with the property tax hike because it will help out a lot of people.

However, Mr. Davey is right at one point -- there is no 100% perfect solution. No matter how hard the city tries, no matter how hard home owners try, and no matter how hard they try to help each other, there are always going to be times where sidewalks are not walkable, just like the roads are not clear of snow.

[danbrotherston]

You bring up a good point that has been a common refrain within our discourse on the sidewalk clearing issue. Mike Farwell was probably the most blunt about it.

He basically said that ONLY by clearing your own sidewalk are you doing something good for the community, by advocating for, supporting, and paying taxes you are in fact not doing something for your community.

I find this an absurd and self serving belief. I believe that what helps my community is not my sidewalk being clear, it is having sidewalks in general accessible to everyone. Advocating for a policy, and making any sacrifice, fiscal, time, effort, to achieve this end is what is actually benefits our community.

If one instead advocates for a policy that can not, and does not work in practice, you are doing harm to the community, but justifying it believing you are doing good. Nobody wants to think they are bad or harmful. And lemme be clear, this is a broader judgement on society, and our ability to justify whatever behaviour we prefer based on nothing. How many conservatives believe cutting social services help people get back to work. In our case, it's being used to justify against policies which could keep sidewalks consistently clear.

[the_councillor]

Alright... let's tackle some of these... I'm Scott Davey by the way, Hi!