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Cycling in Waterloo Region
(07-09-2018, 02:16 PM)Pheidippides Wrote: Another one:
that is a bike parked in the bike lane
(07-14-2018, 09:15 PM)Pheidippides Wrote: They really need to install some bike racks along the bike lanes in uptown. People are locking them up to the brand new trees and damaging them.
They have bike racks at the public square and in the parkade and the library. The general consensus seemed to be there is parking nearby so walking the block or 2 isn't a big deal.
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(07-15-2018, 07:33 AM)darts Wrote: ...

(07-14-2018, 09:15 PM)Pheidippides Wrote: They really need to install some bike racks along the bike lanes in uptown. People are locking them up to the brand new trees and damaging them.
They have bike racks at the public square and in the parkade and the library. The general consensus seemed to be there is parking nearby so walking the block or 2 isn't a big deal.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. There is car parking all up King St. and on every side street, as well as one off street lot. But you're arguing there *shouldn't* be bike parking?
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(07-15-2018, 07:50 AM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(07-15-2018, 07:33 AM)darts Wrote: ...

They have bike racks at the public square and in the parkade and the library. The general consensus seemed to be there is parking nearby so walking the block or 2 isn't a big deal.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.  There is car parking all up King St. and on every side street, as well as one off street lot.  But you're arguing there *shouldn't* be bike parking?

of course there should be bike parking, I was pointing out that there was some just a block or 2 away. The argument for cars parked in that area in the bike lane is that there is parking further in uptown, just pointing out the same holds true for bike parking.
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(07-15-2018, 10:01 AM)darts Wrote: of course there should be bike parking, I was pointing out that there was some just a block or 2 away. The argument for cars parked in that area in the bike lane is that there is parking further in uptown, just pointing out the same holds true for bike parking.

The difference, lies in costs, and what things we wish to prioritize. I'd say that drivers and cyclists both strongly desire parking right in front of their destination, but the cost to society to offer bike parking is far lower than car parking, so it's an entirely worthwhile thing to provide.
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(07-15-2018, 12:15 PM)Markster Wrote:
(07-15-2018, 10:01 AM)darts Wrote: of course there should be bike parking, I was pointing out that there was some just a block or 2 away. The argument for cars parked in that area in the bike lane is that there is parking further in uptown, just pointing out the same holds true for bike parking.

The difference, lies in costs, and what things we wish to prioritize. I'd say that drivers and cyclists both strongly desire parking right in front of their destination, but the cost to society to offer bike parking is far lower than car parking, so it's an entirely worthwhile thing to provide.

I think the point is that there is bike parking already (and, yes, maybe there should be more). And yet some people are locking their bikes to the trees.
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There weren't bike posts in uptown before the construction; I remember locking to parking signs and garbage cans.
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(07-15-2018, 07:33 AM)darts Wrote:
(07-09-2018, 02:16 PM)Pheidippides Wrote: Another one:
that is a bike parked in the bike lane
(07-14-2018, 09:15 PM)Pheidippides Wrote: They really need to install some bike racks along the bike lanes in uptown. People are locking them up to the brand new trees and damaging them.
They have bike racks at the public square and in the parkade and the library. The general consensus seemed to be there is parking nearby so walking the block or 2 isn't a big deal.

I'm not sure what your point is either.

My original picture was of a e-bike/scooter thingy parked in the bike lane. It would be no different if a car was parked on King St in the driving lane. It is an object occupying a space it shouldn't be occupying.

The same with the trees. If cars were parking to close to the trees and damaging them I would be upset about that as well. Those trees are important on so many levels and will be lucky to survive in the first place. They don't need additional challenges.

Finally, the number of bike parking spots along King has been reduced, while the number of nearby vehicle parking spots is nearly identical to before (and the vehicle spots were done very early in the project and vehicles were are using the bike lanes for additional parking. Plus, they've added a tonne of nearby surface lot area within for vehicles (Regina @ Bridgeport x2) while bike parking disappeared in the same time frame.

There were bike racks along that stretch (tracks north to Bridgeport) that have not been replaced since construction (in front of the old post office, in front of Long and McQuade, in front of the old, old post office, in front of Chainsaw, in front of Uptown 21, and at least 3 (1,2,3) between the tracks and King St Cycles on the east side of King), and others in the surrounding area that have recently been taken out (in front of the button factory, and the one that was right on regina).
Everyone move to the back of the bus and we all get home faster.
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(07-15-2018, 08:30 PM)Pheidippides Wrote:
(07-15-2018, 07:33 AM)darts Wrote: that is a bike parked in the bike lane
They have bike racks at the public square and in the parkade and the library. The general consensus seemed to be there is parking nearby so walking the block or 2 isn't a big deal.

I'm not sure what your point is either.

My original picture was of a e-bike/scooter thingy parked in the bike lane. It would be no different if a car was parked on King St in the driving lane. It is an object occupying a space it shouldn't be occupying.

The same with the trees. If cars were parking to close to the trees and damaging them I would be upset about that as well. Those trees are important on so many levels and will be lucky to survive in the first place. They don't need additional challenges.

Finally, the number of bike parking spots along King has been reduced, while the number of nearby vehicle parking spots is nearly identical to before (and the vehicle spots were done very early in the project and vehicles were are using the bike lanes for additional parking. Plus, they've added a tonne of nearby surface lot area within for vehicles (Regina @ Bridgeport x2) while bike parking disappeared in the same time frame.

There were bike racks along that stretch (tracks north to Bridgeport) that have not been replaced since construction (in front of the old post office, in front of Long and McQuade, in front of the old, old post office, in front of Chainsaw, in front of Uptown 21, and at least 3 (1,2,3) between the tracks and King St Cycles on the east side of King), and others in the surrounding area that have recently been taken out (in front of the button factory, and the one that was right on regina).

What is there not to get

They have bike racks at the public square and in the parkade and the library. The general consensus seemed to be there is parking nearby so walking the block or 2 isn't a big deal, at least that is what is said regarding vehicle parking if they can't find a spot. 
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Yes, but with vehicle parking you also have the option of parking right in front of your destination should it be available.

When the same number of bike parking spots are available near the destination as previously are made available, and they are full, I will happily find the next closest rack.
Everyone move to the back of the bus and we all get home faster.
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(07-15-2018, 08:46 PM)Pheidippides Wrote: Yes, but with vehicle parking you also have the option of parking right in front of your destination should it be available.

When the same number of bike parking spots are available near the destination as previously are made available, and they are full, I will happily find the next closest rack.

But … right or wrong, we won't accept this same argument from someone driving a car, even if the number of parking spaces has been reduced (as it has been in many areas along the LRT route).
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(07-15-2018, 08:56 PM)tomh009 Wrote:
(07-15-2018, 08:46 PM)Pheidippides Wrote: Yes, but with vehicle parking you also have the option of parking right in front of your destination should it be available.

When the same number of bike parking spots are available near the destination as previously are made available, and they are full, I will happily find the next closest rack.

But … right or wrong, we won't accept this same argument from someone driving a car, even if the number of parking spaces has been reduced (as it has been in many areas along the LRT route).

Has parking been reduced along the route?  It hasn't in uptown (as mentioned, all parking spaces removed were replaced elsewhere).  In DTK there might have been some removed, but some time before a giant new parking garage was opened.

And you're right, we should be holding car parking to a different standard from bike parking...from the issue of space alone it should need 10 / 1.3 times the justification (10 bikes can fit in a car parking space, and I'm being generous with cars averaging 1.3 people per vehicle, and bikes carrying only 1).  And that's before considering the other reasons that we would like to reduce parking for cars.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating more car parking, I would be happy to see less.

But locking your bike to a tree in the bike lane because there is no rack directly in front of your destination is weak in my mind, we don't allow (or at least shouldn't allow) drivers to break the rules for convenience, either. I would advocate having sufficient number of bike racks -- but I would then expect bicyclists to also use them, not just lock to the tree closets to the shop they are visiting.
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(07-15-2018, 09:58 PM)tomh009 Wrote: Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating more car parking, I would be happy to see less.

But locking your bike to a tree in the bike lane because there is no rack directly in front of your destination is weak in my mind, we don't allow (or at least shouldn't allow) drivers to break the rules for convenience, either. I would advocate having sufficient number of bike racks -- but I would then expect bicyclists to also use them, not just lock to the tree closets to the shop they are visiting.

I don't think they're equivalent.  Drivers parking illegally often endanger other people.  People locking bikes to signs or trees isn't really in the same class.  At a very minimum (driver parking in a legal parking, say without paying), is still, geometrically, at least 10x as bad as parking a bike in the same way.

The second thing is that locking to signs or the like is pretty much par for the course for cyclists, plenty of places I visit have no bike parking whatsoever (or only wheel benders).  If there was reliable parking everywhere, then I'd be willing to argue that cyclists should be expected to find proper parking (this was the situation I experienced and lived when visiting the Netherlands) but if it's expected that there isn't parking and cyclists just improvise, then we can hardly blame them for improvising.

It's also worth noting that the when it comes to legality, is there even a bylaw against parking your bike like that? I doubt it.
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In that case there isn't much point providing bicycle parking, is there, if it won't get used and people will just lock their bikes to railings and trees anyway …
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(07-15-2018, 10:33 PM)tomh009 Wrote: In that case there isn't much point providing bicycle parking, is there, if it won't get used and people will just lock their bikes to railings and trees anyway …

Huh?

Obviously people use parking if there is parking nearby.  But not when parking is 2 blocks away.
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